USPSA - Production Optic

[CB45]

Same rules as traditional Production division, just add an red dot optical sight.

Would it create more interest in USPSA from Indiana folks?

 

[sv40sw45]

OF COURSE!!!!!!!

 

[praff]

Not sure it would bring more people into uspsa. Seems like most people that start uspsa shoot what they have (production or single stack). Maybe there are more glocks and m&p's with dots than i realize tho. It would be a good division for people that want to shoot a dot without spending the money and effort it takes to shoot open.

are you really that tired of iron sights already? Haha

 

[Snizz1911]

You mean not everyone has a $3k Salient Glock with a dot?

 

[bwframe]

...

are you really that tired of iron sights already? Haha

Yeah, this ^^^.

 

[rvb]

I think the idea has more to do with folks who are starting to put dots on their carry guns. eg:
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/handguns/348552-james-yeager-red-dots-pistols-part-1-a.html

while I personally wouldn't have any interest in shooting in such a division today, i think it's worth looking at just because I think uspsa should be ahead of the tech curve, not falling behind it. It's true there is already an open division for red dots, but is something like a G19 w/ a dot really competitive against something that can score major, hold 28 rounds in the mag, comp'd etc?

would it bring more folks into the sport? possibly, if promoted well enough. but eventually we'll see folks show up w/ their M&P Core or similar.... we don't want them to not come back because there's no place to be competitive. and I suspect we'll see more factory guns like the Core in the future and more folks putting dots on factory guns....

2c

-rvb

 

[Russellhjoy]

I vote change limited 10 to iron sight open

 

[partyboy6686]

My friend would love that division. He has a M&P CORE that he wants to shoot USPSA with but doesn't want to get his *** handed to him in the shoot open division.

 

[Rob377]

It'd probably have better participation numbers than Revo and L10. That's not saying much, though.


Call it dynamic tactical production and watch new shooters with all the coolest MOLLE gear come out in droves!

 

[rvb]

It'd probably have better participation numbers than Revo and L10. That's not saying much, though.
Call it dynamic tactical production and watch new shooters with all the coolest MOLLE gear come out in droves!

quite a few folks switch to open when they get older and have trouble focusing on the FS. I wonder how many folks in that situation would be drawn to a prod-open division where they could get into it for much less $.

The one problem I see w/ using pure production rules is the 1911 crowd couldn't play. How long before we see a factory product similar to the Core, but on a 1911? Perhaps allowing both into the division using their respective gun rules (and picking either DOH or non DOH holster) would help? 8/maj and 10/min for all? That could be something that gets tackled later...

Calling it something like "Tac Optics" (like in 3-gun) might make sense... in 3-gun that gets you an optic, but still much more restricted than open....

-rvb

 

[praff]

It'd probably have better participation numbers than Revo and L10. That's not saying much, though.


Call it dynamic tactical production and watch new shooters with all the coolest MOLLE gear come out in droves!

I like it. Anything with tactical in the title.

 

[Bosshoss]

Sounds like a fun division.
Revolver and SS have choices why not let slide mount optics in Production.
Maybe let optics in with current rules(10 rounds)and let open sight guns load the mags to 17 rounds. Your choice dot or extra ammo
I don't know if there are enough people to support this class but that didn't stop them from changing revolver division.

 

[Rob377]

Sounds like a fun division.
Revolver and SS have choices why not let slide mount optics in Production.
Maybe let optics in with current rules(10 rounds)and let open sight guns load the mags to 17 rounds. Your choice dot or extra ammo
I don't know if there are enough people to support this class but that didn't stop them from changing revolver division.

I'm getting crazy, partially baked ideas for a kinda-sorta outlaw match to test this idea...

 

[jakemartens]

I vote change limited 10 to iron sight open

BOOM
L10 Optics with major/minor scoring
Major = iron sights
minor= optics

call it day and move along

 

[chizzle]

I think an "Open 10" (basically production with optics) would be a great addition to USPSA. It would help fight the notion that you need to spend $3000 on a gun and mags to participate (except in Production). It'd also be neat to see manufacturers compete for market share and come up with other M&P Core like pistols. I think they're sweet, but am unlikely to buy one if I can't "justify" one.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

Don't dilute the pool any more than it is. If we keep creating new divisions so we can all have a place to win, does that victory really mean anything? Don't wanna get your ass kicked in open.... Maybe try practicing.... Or developing a stronger sense of self esteem.... I can't beat Tony Canaan in a F1 car, so should I create a new division for bone stock Chevy Aveos? Or just accept that I won't be an F1 world champion?
If you want to shoot your production gun with an optic, go for it, that's welcome in open class. If you don't like minor scoring, then shoot all Alphas. Sevigny won the Limited Nationals with a production legal G35, this idea that a custom built 2011 is the only gun that can win has been disproved a number of times.

 

[kevinsr98]

Don't dilute the pool any more than it is. If we keep creating new divisions so we can all have a place to win, does that victory really mean anything? Don't wanna get your ass kicked in open.... Maybe try practicing.... Or developing a stronger sense of self esteem.... I can't beat Tony Canaan in a F1 car, so should I create a new division for bone stock Chevy Aveos? Or just accept that I won't be an F1 world champion?
If you want to shoot your production gun with an optic, go for it, that's welcome in open class. If you don't like minor scoring, then shoot all Alphas. Sevigny won the Limited Nationals with a production legal G35, this idea that a custom built 2011 is the only gun that can win has been disproved a number of times.

I disagree. We ususally have 4 to 5 times more production shooters at a local match than open shooters. Most could care less what Sevigny did at Nationals. I think it would generate a lot of intrest. Besides, it wouldn't effect you in open class, so why should you care one way or another...

 

[Rob377]

I'm not sure how adding another 'expensive' gun division will convince the general shooting public that you really don't need a $3k racegun to play this game.

I'm also not sure how many people actually believe that old canard, vis-a-vis those that are just using it as an excuse.

 

[Mike Elzinga]

Kevin, I don't shoot open. My point about Sevigny is that it's been proven that an expensive gun isn't nessecary to win. What I meant by "Diluting the pool" is that with more divisions, there will be less shooters in each division, and at medium to small matches, you will find there aren't really enough shooters per class or division to feel like anything was won, or to have any true competition. If there are only 2 guys in Production Optics-B class, how can you gauge your performance? I got a very nice plaque from a level 2 match by winning my class, ironically it was one of my worst matches ever and I was embarrassed by my performance, it solely happened because there weren't many Production C class shooters at that particular match. So now I have a very nice plaque that will sit in my closet for life because there was no pride taken in "winning" it.

Also, I can garuntee that several of the big dogs will bail from Limited/Open at big matches to shoot this new division and win that divisions prize money. It happened every time there was a combined Nationals, and would happen again. Then the new guys who wanted a division where they wouldn't "get their asses handed to them" would now get that very thing, but within the division they created. If you want to shoot a CORE or open Glock, or whatever, go for it, no one is stopping you. I've shot open minor before with a single stack and it was a ton of fun!

 

[bigcraig]

Optics on a Production gun, using the current Production division rules, sure it could work.

Just call it Tac-Production and call it done.

Actually, under further thought as I type this, all guns in the proposed "Tac-Production" division should also mandate a mounted weapon light at all times. Keep the 10rd restriction to force reloads and to appease the ban states.

Sounds like a winner, and something I would shoot on occasion.

ETA: I think allowing some more aggressive grip alterations would be nice too!

Sort of like this, but with a slide mounted RDS and a weapon light.

Maybe even require holsters with a retention device?