U.S. Military trains with local police to suppress "Zombie Invasion" in the U.S.

[Kirk Freeman]

Ok, so the military is wargaming? So what?

Some bright-eyed 0-6 decided to mix things up after a rotation at the War College.

And we are worried that our military is training because . . . why exactly?

Every time the USAF flies a jet they are training to shoot another missle into the Southside of Indianapolis?

Every time some 19 year old E-3 goes to the range he is preparing for guard tower duty at the Beech Grove Death Camp?

What exactly is the problem, rambone?

 

[the1kidd03]

Not at all. I think the citizens of this country, as much or more than the military and police, have a great deal to do with precisely why it is unlikely that any country on the planet would attempt to attack US soil.

However, I believe that those tasked with protecting this country should train for the possibility of an attack. That's kind of what they get paid to do. I don't particularly want every member of the armed forces drinking beer and playing cornhole on the taxpayer's dime. Using the argument that they shouldn't train because they might use that training against citizens is ****ing ridiculous. It's the same argument the Brady Campaign uses to try to prevent you and I from owning firearms, because we might use them in a crime. Lots and lots and lots and lots of screaming goes on here about pre-crime and interfering with citizens before they have committed a crime yet some can't get enough of the mentality when an opportunity to spin a conspiracy arises.

No person, police officer, soldier, sailor, marine or airman is going to repel any focused attack on our country on their own. No collection of these people will be worth a squirt of **** if they are each acting independently and without knowledge of what the others are doing or will do. Plain and simple. Guerrilla warfare rarely results in anything but a speed bump to a determined, equipped and trained force.

I'm 150,000% in favor of everyone training to defend their homes, families, communities and country regardless of what clothing they wear.

I must have mis-interpreted what you were intending.

I don't agree the Guerrilla warfare is merely a speed bump, but otherwise well stated. Indeed, EVERYONE needs to train.

I think the bigger question here is, how many LEOs do YOU know that would NOT ask those questions and blindly follow orders? I'm sure it's been covered here before so it's more of a rhetorical question, but that is what I think stirs people's fears on the matter. They see statements like your first one here and jump to the conclusion that the majority of those in uniform will simply follow orders.

I like to think that most, especially military would not follow orders to hinder citizens. I fear, however, that not as many LEO may stand up in such an instance. Not intending to "cop bash" but from conversations and those whom I know/have met it seems that this "us vs them" attitude that runs rampant in LE ranks will contribute to their willingness to blindly follow orders. It would be relatively easy for the media/government to label someone a "terrorist" or a "threat" and as soon as that label is publically distributed it becomes the image associated with that person. How do we really know though? We can't question the basis for it. Who would we question?

Having the advantage of working in LE, you are privy to much more sensitive information than the media and general public. But I always think about that example of the guy who got on the news (in Chicago I think it was), but no less for having an "arsenal." He was later labeled a "radicalist" which is simply a nice way of saying "terrorist" really, and all he had was a .22, a single shot shotgun, and a brick or two of 22 ammo.

Of course, the media rarely tells the truth, but it's just one example of how they can control a situation. Then, assuming he was arrested, he'll be put on trial for judgement by people who already have this image of him being a "crazy radical terrorist." So, what happens if the government was to order removal of citizens arms for example? Will we not all be labeled the same in order to pander public opinion and get the majority on their side, including LEO?

Anyhow, sorry for the soap box. Just thinking out loud(in text), LOL.

 

[the1kidd03]

You focus on "them" and "they" when you find these ridiculous conspiracy schemes. The fact is that "they" consist of a bunch of "me" so when you accuse them of training to take away your cookies you are accusing me and everyone else who swears an oath to defend the country while wearing a uniform.

Hmm...speaking of oaths; does the LE oath have the same phrasing as the military? I've never asked anyone that before, you just made me think of it.

The whole "support and defend the Constitution" bit...

 

[HavokCycle]

the problem is mindset. training to take on the enemy is one thing, training to destroy your own citizens is another.
pardon my tinfoil hat, but i don't understand why others think this country is invulnerable in its politics and policies; we're every bit as susceptible to a Soviet-style collapse as Russia was. just because Good Morning America doesn't bring it up, doesn't mean its not true. every time I try and tell someone of a FACTUAL STORY I'm labeled as a whackjob.

just because you don't want to hear it, doesn't make it untrue.
Martial law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kirk Freeman]

From the article:

San Diego-based Halo Corp. founded by former military special ops and intelligence personnel has been hosting the annual counterterrorism summit since 2006.

Dude, it's Halo Corp. Chock full of frustrated intel squirrels from all branches and Renaissance Men from Special Forces.

A rescue mission with zombies. Gee, I wonder if that would mix it up for Lance Corporal Schmuckatelli and keep his attention and boost his drive.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

The whole "support and defend the Constitution" bit...

Yes, but the Constitution of the State of Indiana is included.

 

[the1kidd03]

Yes, but the Constitution of the State of Indiana is included.

Ah..so it probably more closely resembles the National Guard's oath.

 

[the1kidd03]

Lance Corporal Schmuckatelli

LOL, I wish it were like yester-year to some degree. Ability earns promotion to all ranks, not merely just college education. Go from Lance to SSgt or Captain, etc. because of your proven ability to do your job and lead. The good old days(before my time)

 

[lucky4034]

So... is that to say citizens are incapable of warding off an attack or helping in such action?!?

American history and heritage has long proven otherwise. Why is it that statements such as these (often coming from LEOs) are dealt out with some level of condescension towards citizens?

Yeah, "everyone on the internet is a tuff guy" but really that's a "cop out" (excuse the pun) in this context because it is and always has been a part of American culture to band together in times of need. Everything from the revolution to the most recent natural disasters prove that. Typically, when something is of such a nature that it threatens the majority of people the number who contribute effort to the cause grows immensely.

I understand your point in that pretty much anything the government does can be spun into a conspiracy of some sort, but does that inherently mean there is absolutely NO possible credibility OR POSSIBILITY of such theories being at all true? Of course not.

The only fact is that we, as humans, never really know what the true intentions of others are. That's why it's important as a community of citizens to ask questions, seek the truth, not just assume whatever is being fed to us is the truth, and be CRITICAL THINKERS (don't take everything for face value.)

Whether there is any truth to such conspiracies, nobody will ever know...at least not until it's too late. Regardless, that's not cause for assuming citizens who currently dawn a uniform are any better than those who chose a different career path. I know numerous men who dawn NO uniform now, that did previously and have FAR more experience/training than a vast majority of LE (and I know MANY of them as well) or citizens....but now that they've begun other careers in the last couple years they should "stand down" and let the "professionals" do their "job?!?"

The nation's security is not strictly placed onto the shoulders of those who bear a uniform. It is every citizen's RIGHT and RESPONSIBILITY to ensure the survival of liberty for our children and theirs. My ancestors have fought in every major war the US has been involved in, including significant contributors to the revolution efforts. I'm sure that they, just as I am, would be appalled at comments/ideologies such as these which draw lines in the sand between citizens who are willing to take part in such a fight.

A uniform doesn't make someone "Jason Bourne" anymore than an internet forum... It just means they chose a different career. Security of liberty is EVERYONE's job regardless of profession.

I swore an oath to the people, the Constitution, and that which it stands for and that is where my allegiance lies...not necessarily those who control its government. Power corrupts indeed, and there is nowhere in the world that there is more power than within the ranks of our government.

“Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government...” ~Thomas Jefferson


NOTE: This is not meant to be a personal attack against you. I understand your point, but I cannot agree with the ideology that simply being one's job makes them any more qualified to defend our lands and/or help in times of need.

Better yet... I'd like to know why he thinks it is a police officers responsibility to stop a Chinese invasion?

I feel really comfortable knowing that should China invade the US... I can sit at home because the police force will just take care of it for me.

 

[Cerberus]

I wish some people would go get to know some of our troops. They are remarkably resourseful, and a substantial portion of them do not care for their current bosses. Are there idiots amongst them, yes, but they often times get weeded out eventually.

Reminds me of a few years back at our Annual Training. We were given a scenario of armed presence patrols in American towns. There was a good degree of dissent. Some heated.

We aren't blind robots.

 

[phylodog]

Better yet... I'd like to know why he thinks it is a police officers responsibility to stop a Chinese invasion?

I feel really comfortable knowing that should China invade the US... I can sit at home because the police force will just take care of it for me.

Oh gosh, you're right, what was I thinking? If the Chinese were to invade we should probably just go about our regular business taking stolen cell phone reports & such. You can go out and fight, we'll just write the Chinese traffic tickets if they fail to respect our laws. You'd better be careful too though, I'll write you one of you're speeding to go "get some".

Yeah, that whole "us vs them" mentality is sure entrenched in the LE community.

 

[HavokCycle]

Reminds me of a few years back at our Annual Training. We were given a scenario of armed presence patrols in American towns. There was a good degree of dissent. Some heated.

We aren't blind robots.

no offense, but - 1970 Kent State shootings are an enduring history lesson - USATODAY.com

 

[phylodog]

no offense, but - 1970 Kent State shootings are an enduring history lesson - USATODAY.com

And white people used to own slaves. It would be nice to think that we have evolved since then but maybe white people still shouldn't be trusted.

 

[jbombelli]

"Zombie invasion": euphemism for civil unrest.

 

[lucky4034]

Oh gosh, you're right, what was I thinking? If the Chinese were to invade we should probably just go about our regular business taking stolen cell phone reports & such. You can go out and fight, we'll just write the Chinese traffic tickets if they fail to respect our laws. You'd better be careful too though, I'll write you one of you're speeding to go "get some".

Yeah, that whole "us vs them" mentality is sure entrenched in the LE community.

You are trying to justify why its worth tax payer money for Military personnel to train police forces in Zombie Apocalypse scenarios aren't you? And you justify the training by saying police should be prepared for Chinese takeovers and alien invasions....

My point isn't a dig on police... my point is, ITS A WASTE OF TAXPAYER MONEY to train police to do a job they weren't intended for. Your job is to police and protect American citizens, not stop foreign invasions.

If a foreign invasion were to happen... then obviously you would be useful, but its not your job and its not what you get paid for.

Your job is to police the population and therefore... this training more closely represents a scenario that involves the population you are being paid to police, which doesn't consist of foreign invading militaries or aliens.... and furthermore, maybe... just MAYBE Rambone and Jbombarelli and all the rest of the "Tin Foil Hat" club have a point.

Why in the hell are the police cross training with the military to practice violent civil unrest scenarios? Not only is this a waste of taxpayer money... not only is this ridiculous... its a bit scary.

No one is on here accusing police of conspiring... but it begs the question... what is the underlying point? Whoever came up with this training, what were they envisioning?

 

[lucky4034]

And white people used to own slaves. It would be nice to think that we have evolved since then but maybe white people still shouldn't be trusted.

Right... in its time, the Kent State mishap was totally socially common and acceptable....

It was the norm... duh. Its 40 years later and we know better now.

 

[lucky4034]

I wish some people would go get to know some of our troops. They are remarkably resourseful, and a substantial portion of them do not care for their current bosses. Are there idiots amongst them, yes, but they often times get weeded out eventually.

Reminds me of a few years back at our Annual Training. We were given a scenario of armed presence patrols in American towns. There was a good degree of dissent. Some heated.

We aren't blind robots.

No... and neither were the troops in Syria which is why so many defected to join the rebellion.

I don't think anyone here is blaming the troops or the police for this training... its the culture of those in the highest of places that needs to change.

 

[phylodog]

How long might it take for the military to respond to an area which isn't near an installation should it be attacked? How many deaths are acceptable as the citizens wait for someone to come assist? Should anyone tasked with public safety be trained to protect the public?

Since this thread is based largely on hypothetical situations, I've got one of my own. There are pockets of Muslim communities across this country. They have attempted to enforce Sharia law within their communities and have been met with resistance. If they were to decide they've had enough and go on the attack against anyone not on their team, should they be met with resistance from those paid to protect the public safety?

 

[lucky4034]

I'm sure this training has its uses....

I'm also sure that this was probably a lot of fun...

I'm also not sold that this is a conspiracy....

But I'm certain that this type of discussion also has value. I'm just baffled that you feel that any discussion questioning the motives of government agencies (specifically LEO's) is pretty much off limits.

Hate to break it to you... but L.E. Agencies aren't infallible, aren't incorruptible and aren't omnipotent... no more than civilians are.

Breath the words "LEO screws up" and 2-3 INGO cops jack the thread to shoot it down or stand up for their "brethren" or whatever because you feel "lumped in".

Well, if you are lumped in as LEO... then I guess I would be lumped in as Civilian... yet, every time a thread gets opened where some jackass civilian screws up, I don't run to their defense... nor do I try to belittle the OP for starting the thread.

When a Military Veteran goes off the deep end and commits a serious war crime or crime in the civilian world... you don't see military people running to their defense?

 

[IndyDave1776]

How long might it take for the military to respond to an area which isn't near an installation should it be attacked? How many deaths are acceptable as the citizens wait for someone to come assist? Should anyone tasked with public safety be trained to protect the public?

Since this thread is based largely on hypothetical situations, I've got one of my own. There are pockets of Muslim communities across this country. They have attempted to enforce Sharia law within their communities and have been met with resistance. If they were to decide they've had enough and go on the attack against anyone not on their team, should they be met with resistance from those paid to protect the public safety?

Good post! This brings us straight into the quest for truth and reality, both of which can be more elusive than they appear at face value. In somewhat oversimplified form, any standing force can be used against those whom it ostensibly exists to fight, or it can be turned inward against those who accepted its creation for the purpose of protecting them. All of those who are part of that force have sworn to uphold and protect the Constitution. In reality, some of them would cut my throat and make my family mop up the blood if they were so ordered. Many would refuse such an order. I can't say how the percentages would work out with any certainty, but so far in life, my personal experiences don't afford me a whole lot of optimism.

Another complication is that of clannishness and secrecy. We started as a nation of critical thinkers who demanded transparency. By the time of World War II, most functions of the government, especially military and to a somewhat lesser extent law enforcement had become very opaque to the extent of people considering it their civic duty to make a point of not seeing anything and accepting the notion that it was being done for their own good. The aforementioned groups also developed a tendency to fraternize among themselves in relative isolation from their communities. I understand that some among the police find it frustrating dealing with the us/them mentality that many of the non-police have, but the shoe has been on the other foot since my grandparents were children arguably not reaching its apex so far as police are concerned for another couple of decades.

The unfortunate truths are that those in positions of power generally will abuse those positions sooner or later and that a free society will degenerate into some form of authoritarian government after at least 51% of the people become corrupt (think of those who vote for largess at the expense of others). I fail to see any way that these threats can be discounted especially after approximately 80 years of people within the government working very hard to shift the balance of power from favoring the people to favoring the government. There was a good reason why early on, the primary defense was a citizen militia that assembled and trained regularly. The introductory clause of the Second Amendment is nothing like what some have tried to twist it into being, but rather a clear declaration that we have a need and a civic duty to be prepared to defend our own nation.

We have now effectively ceded that duty to professionals whose personal loyalties may be to the nation, specifically in form of upholding and defending the Constitution, and others whose loyalties are to themselves approaching the job with a mercenary attitude of profit and self-promotion financially and socially. Unfortunately, it is not like watching the Batman television series from before my time in which the BGs all wore black shirts with white block letters declaring them to be the BGs. In real life, we don't know until an event happens, and then it's too late if we have allowed the balance to shift too far toward the government.