Trump acting as President

[Jludo]

so, trump can change tax rates again

I'll throw in the towel, girlfriend is mad enough I spent this much time on my phone this weekend.

 

[hoosierdoc]

This has gotten confusing.

yes, yes it has

I'll throw in the towel, girlfriend is mad enough I spent this much time on my phone this weekend.

I would do the same but my wife would be PISSED about my girlfriend

 

[jamil]

so, trump can change tax rates again

So we're saying people are saying things they aren't saying again? Is Carrier getting a tax break? Is every company getting the same tax break that Carrier is getting?

 

[hoosierdoc]

So we're saying people are saying things they aren't saying again? Is Carrier getting a tax break? Is every company getting the same tax break that Carrier is getting?

he said it's not free market because carrier got a tax break others have to wait for, then I asked how that's possible and he said it's not, then he again
said we shouldn't be negotiating tax rates on a case by case basis.

 

[foszoe]

So we're saying people are saying things they aren't saying again? Is Carrier getting a tax break? Is every company getting the same tax break that Carrier is getting?

Did you read the post?

It was a quote. While it was probably just poor wording it is what was said unless I am mistaken.

 

[Twangbanger]

This has gotten confusing.

Yepper. It's gotten confusing, because INGO did what it always does: get wrapped around the axle classifying, labeling, and stuffing things into cubbyholes, instead of making well thought-out cases for why one policy is better for the country than another.

"But in this post, you said..." Yeesh.

 

[Hohn]

I guess I am a simpleton. Whatever economic package or political statement you subscribe, Americans have kept jobs that were going to lose them. Good job Trump/Pence. I believe we should try to do the same for all companies. However, if you can't save every job, save the ones that you can when you can.

I could provide every man, woman, and child a job TOMORROW if I was a dictator.

What, you don't want to dig trenches manually?


It's not about the job, it's about what the job is.

 

[Hohn]

As long as cash is being with held from the Beast I am happy....It will starve without it....

The "starve the beast" strategy is the perhaps the biggest failure in all of modern American conservatism. "Starve the beast" has made things much, much worse than ever for anyone who cares about trying to shrink the size and scope of government.

WHY is it such an utter failure?

Mostly because the beast doesn't starve. The government spends what it wants to. The shortage of revenue is not now EVER a constraint on spending. If anyone still believes that it is after the TRILLION-plus dollar deficits of the Obama era, then they cannot be helped.

As long the Uncle Sam owns printing presses, Starve the Beast will not ever, in fact, starve anything.



And this is why it end up backfiring. Because the government continues to operate under massive deficits, people get used to receiving $4T worth of federal government for the price of $3.5T. Or less.

What's worse yet, a huge number of people literally feel no actual burden in funding that $3.5T to begin with.


THE ONLY EFFECTIVE RESTRAINT ON SPENDING IS FOR PEOPLE TO FEEL THE BURDEN OF THE TAXES REQUIRED TO FUND IT.

Now, with nearly a third of Americans feeling literally no income tax burden at all, what incentive have they to restrain spending? NONE.


SPENDING is actual taxation. Since ever dollar spend must either be 1) taken from a taxpayer or 2) borrowed using collateral of FUTURE takings from said taxpayers, spending is the measure of a tax burden.

And the tax code is therefore just an allocation scheme-- who pays and how much.


This is why I insist there is often a very persuasive Conservative Case for Tax Increases.

 

[jamil]

The "starve the beast" strategy is the perhaps the biggest failure in all of modern American conservatism. "Starve the beast" has made things much, much worse than ever for anyone who cares about trying to shrink the size and scope of government.

I have to agree with you here. It's probably better to kill the beast than starve it. A dead beast isn't hungry.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

The "starve the beast" strategy is the perhaps the biggest failure in all of modern American conservatism. "Starve the beast" has made things much, much worse than ever for anyone who cares about trying to shrink the size and scope of government.

WHY is it such an utter failure?

Mostly because the beast doesn't starve. The government spends what it wants to. The shortage of revenue is not now EVER a constraint on spending. If anyone still believes that it is after the TRILLION-plus dollar deficits of the Obama era, then they cannot be helped.

As long the Uncle Sam owns printing presses, Starve the Beast will not ever, in fact, starve anything.



And this is why it end up backfiring. Because the government continues to operate under massive deficits, people get used to receiving $4T worth of federal government for the price of $3.5T. Or less.

What's worse yet, a huge number of people literally feel no actual burden in funding that $3.5T to begin with.


THE ONLY EFFECTIVE RESTRAINT ON SPENDING IS FOR PEOPLE TO FEEL THE BURDEN OF THE TAXES REQUIRED TO FUND IT.

Now, with nearly a third of Americans feeling literally no income tax burden at all, what incentive have they to restrain spending? NONE.


SPENDING is actual taxation. Since ever dollar spend must either be 1) taken from a taxpayer or 2) borrowed using collateral of FUTURE takings from said taxpayers, spending is the measure of a tax burden.

And the tax code is therefore just an allocation scheme-- who pays and how much.


This is why I insist there is often a very persuasive Conservative Case for Tax Increases.

I have to agree with you here. It's probably better to kill the beast than starve it. A dead beast isn't hungry.

Killing this beast will likely result in great waling and gnashing of teeth...not to mention riots in the streets and cities burning down.

 

[hoosierdoc]

do they have data on how many earn money on tax day?

 

[churchmouse]

Killing this beast will likely result in great waling and gnashing of teeth...not to mention riots in the streets and cities burning down.

Oh brother you know it. Shut off the teet and the little piggy's will take to the streets pitch forks and torches in hand.

 

[Leadeye]

Oh brother you know it. Shut off the teet and the little piggy's will take to the streets pitch forks and torches in hand.

As good a reason as any to live in the woods.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

As good a reason as any to live in the woods.

It might keep us safe from them but when they vote to raid our retirement accounts because it's not fair for us to have so much when they're being forced to give up all they "have", those woods might not keep them safe.

 

[Twangbanger]

Edit...delete. Damn pay walls...

 

[actaeon277]

Yup. Reagan's theory was to starve the beast.
Of course, spending was NOT cut.

 

[Trigger Time]

This is an economic war against America that we are losing. The country will fail (is failing) because we have lost the industries that built this nation and half the damn world from here! I support President Trump doing whatever he needs to do to restore America and make us Great Again! Anyone who nitpicks or stands in the way then move or shut up. You are the problem. If you support obama and his ideas, if you support the democrats then you ARE the enemy, you have destroyed this country by your blind patronage. so come here on ingo to insert your BS communist and socialist and FAR left arguments but why? Just leave and go somewhere you are liked. If you are a gun owner then you are one that will roll over for the 2nd anyways. The ignore list is gonna get longer, because yes I am going to shut out idiots that think differently, people who want to destroy this administration before it even begins.

 

[Kutnupe14]

This is an economic war against America that we are losing. The country will fail (is failing) because we have lost the industries that built this nation and half the damn world from here! I support President Trump doing whatever he needs to do to restore America and make us Great Again! Anyone who nitpicks or stands in the way then move or shut up. You are the problem. If you support obama and his ideas, if you support the democrats then you ARE the enemy, you have destroyed this country by your blind patronage. so come here on ingo to insert your BS communist and socialist and FAR left arguments but why? Just leave and go somewhere you are liked. If you are a gun owner then you are one that will roll over for the 2nd anyways. The ignore list is gonna get longer, because yes I am going to shut out idiots that think differently, people who want to destroy this administration before it even begins.

Ya know, I get your passion, but sometimes I think you take into the stratosphere unnecessarily.

 

[Hohn]

do they have data on how many earn money on tax day?

Doc, not sure if you mean how many people have income *from* tax filing (i.e., net beneficiary from tax filing) or if you mean the total number of earners *on* tax day?

I have data for both, but it's somewhat old as looked into this at a time when only 2010 was current data.

The bottom two quintile of filters (40%) have net negative effective tax rates, mostly by virtue of "refundable credits."

It's easy to see how this happens:

Charts are from the Tax Foundation.

 

[hoosierdoc]

^^^ that makes me sick.

also why I HATE the comments of "this is a tax cut for the rich!"

if 40% of filers earn money through the IRS, how can you possibly cut their taxes that they don't pay?