Trump 2024 ???

[Ingomike]

In what way is D'tis demonstrably like W? W was a go along to get along with the MSM and the other side of the aisle easily manipulated establishment type.

This post is hindsight, not 1999 when he was savior from the Clinton/Gore machine

 

[manifest destiny]

In what way is D'tis demonstrably like W? W was a go along to get along easily manipulated establishment type.

His posse consists of establishmentarians. He looks great in Florida, doesn't he? I think so. He's made decision I agree with; at least from the outside looking in. But the company he keeps? Globalists. CoC guys. Yuck. Oh, and in fairness to me, I didn't use the word demonstrably. I said looks, to me. There are claims among the yapping mass in media that RFKjr might be pulling a 'Ross Perot on Biden'. I'm thinking he might be pulling a 'Ross Perot on Trump'. I'll be curious how Trump plans to handle RFKjr.

 

[KG1]

This post is hindsight, not 1999 when he was savior from the Clinton/Gore machine

My point was in response to manifest destiny when he said that D'tis looks like W policy wise

I disagreed and said that D'tis is far more like DJT policy wise than W and I laid out all of the reasons why he is like DJT policy wise is in a previous post.

 

[KG1]

His posse consists of establishmentarians. He looks great in Florida, doesn't he? I think so. He's made decision I agree with; at least from the outside looking in. But the company he keeps? Globalists. CoC guys. Yuck. Oh, and in fairness to me, I didn't use the word demonstrably. I said looks, to me. There are claims among the yapping mass in media that RFKjr might be pulling a 'Ross Perot on Biden'. I'm thinking he might be pulling a 'Ross Perot on Trump'. I'll be curious how Trump plans to handle RFKjr.

We were talking policy wise. Would you not agree that he pretty much aligns with Trump policy wise like I described in this previous post?

I haven't seen any indication from the way DeSantis has governed that he is influenced to any great degree by CfG or COC establishment Republicans.

He has no qualms about engaging with big business and the leftist education administration. He has championed for parental rights to have a say over their children's education against being indoctrinated by a perverted agenda.

He has the same border, economic, energy, constitutional judicial philosophy policies as Trump and has shown an outspoken distain for the MSM, Big Tech censorship and the corruption of government agencies as well. He is an ally for 2nd amendment rights. I could go on but you get the picture.

 

[KG1]

Another thing that keeps popping up is that while he has been doing good things in Fla. will it translate on a national level?

My response to that is if he governs the way he has in Fla which people have agreed that he has done good things there. then I have no reason to believe all of those good governing qualities wouldn't translate over on to a national level.

 

[manifest destiny]

We were talking policy wise. Would you not agree that he pretty much aligns with Trump policy wise like I described in this previous post?

I believe Trump when he says America First policy. I'm not aware of a time when D'tis claimed to be devoutly America First as a policy. Though it is possible I'm simply unaware of such an occasion. That leads into this....

Another thing that keeps popping up is that while he has been doing good things in Fla. will it translate on a national level?

My response to that is if he governs the way he has in Fla which people have agreed that he has done good things there. then I have no reason to believe all of those good governing qualities wouldn't translate on to a national level.

He won't have the grandeur and gravitas in D.C. likes he's enjoyed in Tallahassee. Nor will he have the same levers to pull. Outside looking in, his Florida actions have matched my worldview. Nationally, I'm not sure he'll translate. And while he displays similar attributes to Trump regarding approach to adversaries, it comes off as an act or front. Obviously that's opinion. Most of all, I think D'tis backers are using him as the latest cudgel against Trump. If D'tis loses, hey, they tried. If he wins, hey, remember all that money we gave you?

Do you think RFKjr poses any concern for Trump, assuming RFKjr can make it through the democratic gauntlet? I think he has serious potential to snag votes that would otherwise go to Trump.

 

[jamil]

In what way is D'tis demonstrably like W more so than he is like Trump? W was a go along to get along with the MSM and the other side of the aisle. An easily manipulated establishment type.

I don’t get a W vibe from DeSantis per se. But the whole “god sent me” shtick makes me feel like the Venn diagram might touch the neocon spectrum more than I’d care for. I don’t know if DeSantis is trying to pander to Christian conservatives, or if he really believes it. Arrogantly presumptive if the latter. Not a deal breaker but I’m adding it to the things that make me go hmmm.

 

[KG1]

I believe Trump when he says America First policy. I'm not aware of a time when D'tis claimed to be devoutly America First as a policy. Though it is possible I'm simply unaware of such an occasion. That leads into this....

He won't have the grandeur and gravitas in D.C. likes he's enjoyed in Tallahassee. Nor will he have the same levers to pull. Outside looking in, his Florida actions have matched my worldview. Nationally, I'm not sure he'll translate. And while he displays similar attributes to Trump regarding approach to adversaries, it comes off as an act or front. Obviously that's opinion. Most of all, I think D'tis backers are using him as the latest cudgel against Trump. If D'tis loses, hey, they tried. If he wins, hey, remember all that money we gave you?

Do you think RFKjr poses any concern for Trump, assuming RFKjr can make it through the democratic gauntlet? I think he has serious potential to snag votes that would otherwise go to Trump.

"I think he (RFKjr) has serious potential to snag votes that would otherwise go to Trump"

I'm assuming you are referring to snagging "independents" that would otherwise vote for Trump over Biden.

 

[KG1]

I don’t get a W vibe from DeSantis per se. But the whole “god sent me” shtick makes me feel like the Venn diagram might touch the neocon spectrum more than I’d care for. I don’t know if DeSantis is trying to pander to Christian conservatives, or if he really believes it. Arrogantly presumptive if the latter. Not a deal breaker but I’m adding it to the things that make me go hmmm.

That's what I meant by "all things considered" and "weighing pros and cons." in a decision-making process.

 

[KG1]

I don’t get a W vibe from DeSantis per se. But the whole “god sent me” shtick makes me feel like the Venn diagram might touch the neocon spectrum more than I’d care for. I don’t know if DeSantis is trying to pander to Christian conservatives, or if he really believes it. Arrogantly presumptive if the latter. Not a deal breaker but I’m adding it to the things that make me go hmmm.

Maybe he was pandering to Christian evangelicals who have said before that they believe Trump was chosen by God to lead at such a time. D'tis could be saying "Hey, God sent me too"

 

[jamil]

I believe Trump when he says America First policy. I'm not aware of a time when D'tis claimed to be devoutly America First as a policy. Though it is possible I'm simply unaware of such an occasion.

I don’t know if DeSantis has adopted AmericaFirst language specifically but he’s espoused AF principles. We’ll see how well he sticks to that.

 

[manifest destiny]

I don’t get a W vibe from DeSantis per se.

But you might if he wins the big chair. All that CoC money didn't come without strings. If he actually wins, I think we might be in for a surprise regarding his allowance of policy decisions.

I don’t know if DeSantis has adopted AmericaFirst language specifically but he’s espoused AF principles. We’ll see how well he sticks to that.

But Jamil, how can he stick to something he hasn't even claimed aloud?

D'tis could be saying "Hey, God sent me too"

This is funny. It reminds me of a comedians joke about Holy Land in the middle east. "Anytime three different men claim Jesus gave each of them the same exact piece of land, there's going to be war". Probably not an exact quote, but facetiously explains the unending conflict.

 

[jamil]

Maybe he was pandering to Christian evangelicals who have said before that they believe Trump was chosen by God to lead at such a time. D'tis could be saying "Hey, God sent me too"

With some of his ads of late it’s had me wondering if he is trying to establish the cult-like followers for himself that Trump has. But to me, the more he tries to be like Trump in the ways that makes me not go for Trump, the less he sets himself apart. If he’s gonna try to be Trump 2.0, then why bother? Other than that I think he tends to handle the media better. More like Kari Lake does.

 

[KG1]

Maybe he was pandering to Christian evangelicals who have said before that they believe Trump was chosen by God to lead at such a time. D'tis could be saying "Hey, God sent me too"

One other thing of note to give Trump some credit is unlike D'tis saying he was "sent by God" Trump didn't say it about himself in 2020. He was humbled and thanked them for saying he was chosen by God and simply said, 'I hope it's true."

This was published in June 2020 btw.

‘I hope it’s true’: Trump responds to claim he was chosen by God

President Trump responded to the evangelical claim that he was appointed by God in an interview Monday.

www.foxnews.com

 

[buckwacker]

As I said, the "Kraken", pejorative as it may be, is shorthand for the specific claims made by people working for Trump after Trump lost the election. It seems to me that you've been vigorously defending it. And perhaps you're only defending the idea that there's ample evidence to indicate that the spies involved themselves in the election. Which may be the case. But the specific claims had to do with actual votes getting flipped from Trump to Biden. Do you have actual evidence of that? Is THAT what you're vigorously defending? If it's the former, I'm on board with that. If it's the latter, it's pretty much Kraken.

I was not trying to ascribe anything to you per se, other than what it seemed to me you were defending.


There was no voter enthusiasm FOR Biden. There was HUGE enthusiasm against Trump. To deny that would be astonishing.

Most of that 81M votes Biden got were droves of D's voting in the urban centers, especially from big blue states. Huge margins there. It's not controversial that the election was decided in the swing states. It should also not be controversial that Biden could win in swing states with ballot harvesting. It's how Bobert almost lost in rural Colorado in


I don't disagree with the irregularities. That's not going to be investigated seriously, so I don't expect any answers. I don't include irregularities as "Kraken".


Again, we're talking about Kraken, which asserted that vote tallies for Trump were flipped to Biden, and similar allegations. Just because CI could have done it isn't proof they did. Prove there was a crime first. Then you can say that's evidence, though not proof.


Again, prove there was a crime. There may have been.


I think you're making the same mistake Bug does. You assume things not asserted. My standard of confident belief is reasonable evidence that something is true. You guys put together claims by people who have a reason to lie, and admittedly a reasonable belief that the CIA could do something, and then say that the election was stolen by flipping votes. What I think is happening, you guys instinctively believe it, and then use some pretty light evidence to support it.

Let me give you an example of election interference, the evidence of which gives me confidence to believe the accusations. That's the situation in AZ with Kari Lake. At first she made claims. At that point, it's possible her claims are true, but I wouldn't be confident in it just because conservative news reports it. They've lied before.

But then it goes to court and the facts that came out in court weren't challenged. Katie Hobb's challenges were that they couldn't prove intent. So the case was dismissed. That's not incontrovertible, but it's enough that a reasonable person paying attention would tend to believe it.


That's the way you're presenting it. But that doesn't represent my views. I'm saying that a few people who are loyal to and worked for DJT made some specific claims, for which we have no evidence except their word that it happened.

So my statement was that we have more reliable information that can explain the same outcome. I'm not asserting that our government is not corrupt. That it is corrupt is self evident. However, that it is corrupt, is not evidence that any given claim of corruption is true simply because of that. Each instance needs its own evidence.

But, because the specific information has implications Trumpers would like to believe, I think it's easy to accept information that confirms those specific claims.

Firstly why do you keep ascribing to me positions I've not taken? You've accuse bug of doing such, and now here you are.

Im not a Trumper. I was hopeful the Powells and Lindells, etc. would provide some evidence of fraud, because nothing about that election made sense, but I didn't follow all the details that closely. I sort of wrote them off after watching all the smoke but never seeing any fire.

My position isn't tied to Powell, or Lindell, or kraken, or any other albatross you are attempting to hang about my neck, regardless of what you have assumed. I've told you this repeatedly, but I guess it's easier to erect strawmen.

Yes I believe the IC manipulated the election. I laid out for you my reasons for believing so. It's circumstantial evidence, and while it's not the kraken or whatever you want to see, it's compelling enough to the open minded to preclude wholesale ignoring it.

When I laid it out in the preceding post you addressed each point individually without considering their totality. And some of your counterpoints were flawed.

You claim Biden, even though no one wanted him, go so many more votes because people didn't like Trump. Elections 101, people don't vote because they dislike the other guy, they vote because they like their guy.

You didn't have a point about the irregularities other than, "Meh?"

You discounted the Agency history, capability, and their persistent use of inflamatory language like "grave threat to the country" to describe Trump.

It's the totality of these things that leads me to to conclude that the IC wasn't going to rely on election shenanigans carried out by an army of Democrat stooge election workers to ensure Trump didn't get to sit in the big boy chair again. It has nothing to do with Powell, Lindell, kraken, or whatever strawman you want to argue about.

 

[Ingomike]

Yes I believe the IC manipulated the election. I laid out for you my reasons for believing so. It's circumstantial evidence, and while it's not the kraken or whatever you want to see, it's compelling enough to the open minded to preclude wholesale ignoring it.

Perfect point!

 

[KG1]

Here is the actual 2020 DeSantis campaign ad for anyone that is curious about it. It was a takeoff from a late great Paul Harvey commentary titled 'So God made a farmer." The campaign ad was titled "So God made a fighter" It was done in a Paul Harvey-esque style commentary.

The narrator even sounds like Harvey. Check it out if you want to see what the actual deal was.

Maybe this stuff should be posted in the DeSantis thread. I only posted here because the conversation was started here. Cross posting and intermingling of threads is another INGO trait. .

Anyways there it is, and it was relevant to the ongoing discussion here, so I posted here.

 

[Ingomike]

You discounted the Agency history, capability, and their persistent use of inflamatory language like "grave threat to the country" to describe Trump.

He also discounted the fact that two, not one, but two, intelligence agency heads were the constantly featured talking heads on TV first for HRC then bidet.

And before the Pompeo supported Trump comes up, he was supporting a president he worked for, but far from a primary spokesman for Trump.

 

[manifest destiny]

Maybe this stuff should be posted in the DeSantis thread. I only posted here because the conversation was started here. Cross posting and intermingling of threads is another INGO trait.

It's excusable in this instance. There is both a DeSantis '24 and a Trump '24 thread running simultaneously. I've gotten confused on which one I'm actually posting in since both discuss D'tis and Trump relative to one another almost exclusively.

 

[KG1]

It's excusable in this instance. There is both a DeSantis '24 and a Trump '24 thread running simultaneously. I've gotten confused on which one I'm actually posting in since both discuss D'tis and Trump relative to one another almost exclusively.

Indeed. I just thought it would be interesting and relevant to the discussion here to find the actual origin of the whole "sent by God" thing" just so anyone that didn't know about it could check it out if they want to and they can decide for themselves.