Trump 2024 — The second term

[BugI02]

With more than 6 months left to the election, the only people left under Trump’s “big tent” are the die-hard MAGA faithful…and there are not enough of you to win the general by yourselves.

Uhhh, you left out blacks and hispanics and jews and asians and married women and normies and Christians and Libertarians and trad liberals and on and on

But whatever let's you sleep

 

[LeftyGunner]

Uhhh, you left out blacks and hispanics and jews and asians and married women and normies and Christians and Libertarians and trad liberals and on and on

But whatever let's you sleep

Uhhhh…that’s Trump leaving those groups out…he can’t even keep the support of the Jews in his own family.

Blacks, libertarians, and trad liberals? You must be high…or, more likely, you don’t really interact with actual people from these groups... Manhattan, Boston, and Atlanta are in no danger of going purple this November…but the Indianapolis suburbs certainly are.

Trump is a product of fearful white men...like you and Mike…thankfully, you are a shrinking demographic.

 

[KLB]

Trump is a product of fearful white men...like you and Mike…thankfully, you are a shrinking demographic.

That is a really silly comment.

 

[LeftyGunner]

That is a really silly comment.

It’s not…and I’m tired of pretending otherwise.

Trump’s appeal is entirely fear-based…just look at the messaging he uses. It resonates with conservatives because conservative ideology is itself deeply pessimistic and rooted in fear.

It’s the same thing the wokies do to dominate the conversation from the left…work from a place of fear to create outrage In their audience. Biden is a product of fear every bit as much as Trump is, and it is certainly fair to point that out as well.

I don’t really think that’s silly…I think it’s rather scary. This next president will be elected for the same reason the last two were…fear of the how the opposition will misuse the presidency, not a more desirable plan for America’s future.

 

[Ingomike]

Trump is a product of fearful white men...like you and Mike…thankfully, you are a shrinking demographic.

Name calling, the resort of those losing the debate…

 

[Ingomike]

It’s not…and I’m tired of pretending otherwise.

Trump’s appeal is entirely fear-based…just look at the messaging he uses. It resonates with conservatives because conservative ideology is itself deeply pessimistic and rooted in fear.

It’s the same thing the wokies do to dominate the conversation from the left…work from a place of fear to create outrage In their audience. Biden is a product of fear every bit as much as Trump is, and it is certainly fair to point that out as well.

I don’t really think that’s silly…I think it’s rather scary. This next president will be elected for the same reason the last two were…fear of the how the opposition will misuse the presidency, not a more desirable plan for America’s future.

And the old double down. Keyboard warrior!

So what was it that was so “scary” during the 45th administration?

 

[KLB]

It’s not…and I’m tired of pretending otherwise.

Trump’s appeal is entirely fear-based…just look at the messaging he uses. It resonates with conservatives because conservative ideology is itself deeply pessimistic and rooted in fear.

It’s the same thing the wokies do to dominate the conversation from the left…work from a place of fear to create outrage In their audience. Biden is a product of fear every bit as much as Trump is, and it is certainly fair to point that out as well.

I don’t really think that’s silly…I think it’s rather scary. This next president will be elected for the same reason the last two were…fear of the how the opposition will misuse the presidency, not a more desirable plan for America’s future.

You are pretending that the only supporters he has fit your definition of hard core Trumpers. I know people of many ages and colors that will vote for Trump. They are all fed up with the senile pretend President we have, and the policies of whomever is the puppeteer for him.

In actuality, you can turn your reasoning around and use it for Biden. All he has to run on is fear mongering about what will happen if Trump is elected again.

The only positives he can claim are improving things since the worst of things under his Presidency. "Jobs created" is really mostly jobs replaced. "Lowering inflation" is since its peak under him.

 

[jamil]

I see it differently. I see you claiming to want results while pretending Trump delivered none (or not enough) as 45 and ignoring the obvious difficulties of getting anything done at the national level, especially with half your own party working behind the scenes to torpedo your presidency

I think this is some faulty logic. On the one hand, "we must vote for Trump to turn this around", and on the other, "we can't expect him to turn it around because everyone is trying to torpedo his presidency." If he can't be expected to accomplish anything, why must we vote for him?

I don't see him turning a lot around. My expectations are low. I expect him to slow or stop the progression towards the cliff. This country wasn't lost in just one presidential term, and it can't be won back in just one term. Politics is downstream from culture. And the culture that's developed over the past decade, really, really wants to head towards that cliff. The real battle is to get them to see it's a cliff and not utopia. The president at most can be a stop-gap.

I think Biden has managed to bring ClownWorld™ into full view better than any Republican has. The post pandemic environment has put the world that Democrats propose in full view as people experience living in it partial implementations of it. And a lot of people aren't liking it. Trump's job, if he manages to win, is to show people how much better the world we had was than the world the Democrats have brought about so far.

I would say that failure for Trump in a new presidential term would be not demonstrating a better existence than ClownWorld™ has given Americans. Surely that's a low bar, even with Clowns in charge of the captured media.

Then, if I had any doubts about my assessment, I see you constantly gas-lighting how DeSantis would get all sorts of things done at the national level because he is able to get them done as governor of a state where his party controls both chambers - something ... unlikely, shall we say ... to happen at the national level. He'll get it done, somehow, because he 'delivers' on a small ball local level, never mind the miracle that needs to happen for that to map onto national politics

Seems to me DeSantis' 'glow of greatness' is just as damaging to keeping a fair assessment. The cult of never Trump is still a cult, with all the negatives to a clear-eyed perception of what's what that that implies

Like I said, all we can expect is a POTUS that stops the bleeding, and hopefully that gives people a chance to relive a freer, more prosperous, society that we used to have. It doesn't have to be Trump. It could be DeSantis. It could even be Ramaswammy. Anyone who truly wants a government that lets people thrive. It can't be a Nikki Cheney. Or any other CoC's like her ilk (Mike can note that 'ilk' is indeed a derogatory word to replace 'kind'). CoC's aren't interested in stopping the bleeding. It's just about holding political power. **** the people and let them eat bugs, as long as they have some politcal power.

Trump is what we have. There's no other choice to oppose ClownWorld™ at this point. I don't see the need to drag Trump alternatives at this point when they're not in the running. So it'll be up to Trump first, to win the presidency, and then to stop the bleeding so that people can heal from the mind virus, and want the world we had over the one Democrats propose.

 

[jamil]

Trump [weaponizing the DOJ, deploying an army of blue-haired vote-gathering fellatists, and giving SSN's to the 7.5 million illegal immigrants that have entered the country illegally under Bidens so they can vote] is the only reason Biden wins 2024.

FIFY

Okay. Trump has a little to do with it. I'm fairly confident he ****ed the porn star while his wife was pregnant. Had he kept his pecker in his pants Brag would have had to dig much deeper to find some other law he could weaponize against his political enemies.

 

[jamil]

Trump is a product of fearful white men...like you and Mike…thankfully, you are a shrinking demographic.

Really? I actually thought you had a shred of intellectual honesty. Then you completely obliterate that belief with this?

To make this statement you have to believe Trump supporters are all racists and that the only reason they're against illegal immigration, wokeness, etcetera, is because they're racists. Other than a few outliers, they're no more racist than you are, and probably less so. To back the group that favors identity over merit, I don't care how much you claim you're against that. You back them. You defend them. You favor them.

But there's a chance you're not being intellectually dishonest. It may be that you're ignorant of reality. Maybe you believe in the world they propose. It's not practically livable for ordinary people.

I'm going to vote for the porn star ****er, because he advocates a world that is practically livable. It's the one we lived in prior to a decade ago.

That is a really silly comment.

I would even go so far as to say retarded.

 

[jamil]

It’s not…and I’m tired of pretending otherwise.

Trump’s appeal is entirely fear-based…just look at the messaging he uses. It resonates with conservatives because conservative ideology is itself deeply pessimistic and rooted in fear.

No it's not. It's rooted in reality. If you think that the world hasn't become ClownWorld™ over the last decade, you're not paying attention. 10 years ago the mass public would spit in your face if you suggested that people should be jailed because of what they say. Now that's normal. It's now "normal" to proclaim "Death to America" in America, for **** sake!

Men dressed in women's clothing and makeup shove their junk in kids faces, and we're told that's just drag, that it's "normal", and that we should just accept it! For **** sake!

Why is Biden opening the border to everyone to enter in violation of immigration laws? Are you at least in favor of rule of law? ClownWorld™ isn't. For what purpose?

I have to sit through "diversity training" at work, which asserts that hiring preference must be given to "diverse people" which is another way of saying, non-straight-white-males. I don't want preferential treatment for straight while males, or anyone else, on the basis of immutable characteristics. Because that would be bigotry. And sane people recognize that; DEI is an edict of ClownWorld™.

I'm not voting for Trump because he told me this is happening. I don't have a truth social account. I've never gone to a Trump rally. I don't listen to him speak. I don't really like the guy. I didn't learn that the world around me had become ClownWorld™ from a porn star ****er. I see it all around for myself.

It's not fear. That you think it is shows your own ignorance. It's simply that the world the nutty Democrats propose is not livable for most people. You have to be brainwashed or someone in charge of it to like it.

It’s the same thing the wokies do to dominate the conversation from the left…work from a place of fear to create outrage In their audience. Biden is a product of fear every bit as much as Trump is, and it is certainly fair to point that out as well.

In Biden's case, or really I'd say the DNC, is a source of the fear. I just want normal again. I want a normal washer that gets cloths clean. I want a toilet that flushes properly. I want a car that doesn't nanny me. I want to be able to buy as many guns as I care to own without the ATF coming to my door. If I ever have grandkids, I want them to be able to go to school and not have to worry about drag time where dudes shove their junk in kids faces, and libraries are full of sexually explicit "queer" books.

I want to do what the **** I want on and with my own property, as long as I'm not harming others. You can't do that in ClownWorld™.

I don’t really think that’s silly…I think it’s rather scary. This next president will be elected for the same reason the last two were…fear of the how the opposition will misuse the presidency, not a more desirable plan for America’s future.

No, the statement you made is ideological garbage, and retarded. If you wanted to just say, "I think both sides are trying to scare the other into voting for them," you'd have a point, but I think you'd have just said that. So I think you're saying a lot more than that, because what you are trying to retcon now doesn't sound anything like "yer a trump supporter 'cause yer a fearful white man, and thankfully yer a dying breed."

 

[BugI02]

That is a really silly comment.

And, given the source, that surprises you how?

Unable to even admit communism is a demographic shrinking even faster as people realize it hasn't really had anything new to offer since 1917

 

[BugI02]

And the old double down. Keyboard warrior!

So what was it that was so “scary” during the 45th administration?

Notice how he limits 'presidents elected out of fear the other side will misuse the office' to only the last two

I think he's probably a closet 'Saint Obama' devotée itching to 'come out'

He obviously can't countenance the fact that his icon actually did misuse the office and Trump was a reaction to that and the attempt to continue the process with Felonia Pantsuit. He believes his side of the divide can cheat enough to push Obiden across the line but can't even admit that to himself, thus it has to be Trump's fault and Obiden's destiny to win

In Clownworld™ (I owe you $.25 jamil) everything is caused by Trump one way or another

 

[BugI02]

I think this is some faulty logic. On the one hand, "we must vote for Trump to turn this around", and on the other, "we can't expect him to turn it around because everyone is trying to torpedo his presidency." If he can't be expected to accomplish anything, why must we vote for him?

Did you miss the part where the bit you quoted specifically mentions his first term/the past/45?

Unlike INGO soothsayers, I can't predict the future, so I can't say his own party will try to torpedo him again although it would probably be a safe bet. Even Reagan, who presided over a much more orderly era, needed the implied threat of high popularity with the people to be able to do some of what he wanted to do and he was not crossing the MIC and the 3 letter organizations. In Trump's era, people are doing much more sketchy things because they've internalized that no one can or will really hold them accountable

To get things done, Trump or any republican will have to adopt democrat tactics and 'drive it like they stole it', which is to say govern like you have a mandate whether you do or not and let the enemy worry about how they're going to stop you

 

[BugI02]

Trump is what we have. There's no other choice to oppose ClownWorld™ at this point. I don't see the need to drag Trump alternatives at this point when they're not in the running. So it'll be up to Trump first, to win the presidency, and then to stop the bleeding so that people can heal from the mind virus, and want the world we had over the one Democrats propose.

So you don't see any need to drag them? Do you see a need to constantly trot them out like some well-worn rosary? One is certainly as bad as the other -and more delusional, given the YUGE gap in popularity

It is both sad and amusing that some on INGO will lament the small demographic that won't vote for Trump, even to save America, as if it is significant; all the while trying to prop up someone like DeSantis and pretend that NO ONE would sit out the election - in never Trump fashion - rather than vote for a CoC-acceptable candidate foisted upon them by their 'betters' because 'he'll deliver'. So will Domino's but I wouldn't vote for them to be president either

It is REALLY late in the game for cloaked neverTrump to still believe their guy could make a difference

 

[LeftyGunner]

Really? I actually thought you had a shred of intellectual honesty. Then you completely obliterate that belief with this?

Oh, great arbiter of intellectual honesty, I humbly prostrate myself at your infallible feet...

To make this statement you have to believe Trump supporters are all racists and that the only reason they're against illegal immigration, wokeness, etcetera, is because they're racists.

FFS…straight to racism? Is that the only fear you can think of that might motivate people?

Fear of the unknown? Fear of change? Fear of loss?

Why do I need to assume a person is a racist for that person to fear things?

Are you sure the problem is a lack of intellectual honesty on my part? From here it sure looks more like a lack of imagination on your part.

Other than a few outliers, they're no more racist than you are, and probably less so. To back the group that favors identity over merit, I don't care how much you claim you're against that. You back them. You defend them. You favor them.

You think Trump gives a **** about merit? ********…he only cares about his own image…he values loyalty.

Merit? You can’t be serious with that nonsense. We live under crony capitalism…merit is counted left of the decimal point to our ruling elites…and that goes double for a wannabe elite like Trump.

I favor the group actually holding politicians accountable for their actions over the group who only talks about doing so.

But there's a chance you're not being intellectually dishonest. It may be that you're ignorant of reality. Maybe you believe in the world they propose. It's not practically livable for ordinary people.

I'm going to vote for the porn star ****er, because he advocates a world that is practically livable. It's the one we lived in prior to a decade ago.

ClownWorld doesn’t scare me as much as a president who tries to stay in office against the will of the electorate and the rule of law.

I’m going to vote against the wannabe king.

 

[jamil]

Oh, great arbiter of intellectual honesty, I humbly prostrate myself at your infallible feet...

Well, okay then. We have that established at least.

FFS…straight to racism? Is that the only fear you can think of that might motivate people?

You're the one who brought race into it.

Fear of the unknown? Fear of change? Fear of loss?

Why do I need to assume a person is a racist for that person to fear things?

You're the one who brought race into it.

Are you sure the problem is a lack of intellectual honesty on my part? From here it sure looks more like a lack of imagination on your part.

It appears so. You seem to be retconning your statement away from a fairly obvious reference to "replacement theory" to, oh, just run of the mill average fear.

You think Trump gives a **** about merit? ********…he only cares about his own image…he values loyalty.

Yep. He cares a lot about himself. He also seems to be against ClownWorld™. As I said above, my only expectation for Trump is to slow or stop the progressive's...progression, towards the cliff. He can **** all the porn stars he wants. Just stop the progression.

Merit? You can’t be serious with that nonsense. We live under crony capitalism…merit is counted left of the decimal point to our ruling elites…and that goes double for a wannabe elite like Trump.

Oh, I understand we live under crony capitalism. Have you had to go to diversity training where they openly say they need to prioritize hiring women and people of color? We got rid of that racist, sexist nonsense in 1964, and these ****ing progressives are trying ***damn hard to bring it back. I've been on many hiring teams. We hired on merit. Didn't give a flying **** about what race is the person, what sex/gender is the person. What's their work ethic? What's their competencies. How well will they get along with their coworkers?

Listen to what Democrats say. That's not what they want.

I favor the group actually holding politicians accountable for their actions over the group who only talks about doing so.

Alright. Let's hold them to account. That's not what is happening now. The only case I thought had merit was the documents case and that's not looking so good for the prosecution now. What crime should Trump be prosecuted for? Hmmm?

How about let's prosecute Biden for having top secret documents, AS VICE PRESIDENT, in his garage, and illegally sharing them with a progressive think tank?

ClownWorld doesn’t scare me as much as a president who tries to stay in office against the will of the electorate and the rule of law.

I think you make more of that than there actually is. I think Trump was a fool for it. That's the extent of it.

I’m going to vote against the wannabe king.

You're going to vote for a clown to lead ClownWorld™? Will the clowns consider you a useful idiot in the future utopia, or will they find a place for you?

Right now, progressives are far more dangerous to personal liberty than Trump ever was or will be.

 

[LeftyGunner]

No it's not. It's rooted in reality. If you think that the world hasn't become ClownWorld™ over the last decade, you're not paying attention.

ClownWorld was running out of momentum in 2016…it was certainly not enough to boost HRC to victory.

Trump carried 2016 on the protest vote…actively from Republicans, and passively from democrats…ClownWorld was not the draw for voters, and neither was MAGA…protesting Clinton was.

It was Trump that got us ClownWorld in 2020…again on a protest vote…but this time against Trump’s favor

If ClownWorld get re-elected, it will be because of the protest vote against Trump in 2024.

Protest voters don‘t stop protest voting just because the guy runs again…quite the opposite…they keep protest voting as long as that candidate keeps running…it was a problem for HRC in 2016, and it’s a problem for Trump in 2024.

10 years ago the mass public would spit in your face if you suggested that people should be jailed because of what they say.

10 years ago people would laugh in your face if you suggested banning books from public libraries would protect children from consuming inappropriate materials…and that’s before every toddler had an internet-connected tablet in their hands every waking hour of the day.

Now that's normal.

Huh…it’s almost like things tend to change over time.

It's now "normal" to proclaim "Death to America" in America, for **** sake!

Just like it’s now absolutely normal to declare that Democrats are biblically evil and want to destroy America…right?

Men dressed in women's clothing and makeup shove their junk in kids faces, and we're told that's just drag, that it's "normal", and that we should just accept it! For **** sake!

How many drag queens were arrested for committing sexual battery against a minor last year?

How many youth pastors were arrested for the same charges in the same time period?

Go ahead and post those numbers when you find them…heck, I’ll even let you use numbers adjusted for population size…it’s safer for kids at drag story hour than it is at their own church.

Why is Biden opening the border to everyone to enter in violation of immigration laws?

The industrialized world is experiencing a massive shift in demographics due to the drop in birth rate that accompanies economic development…we need immigrants to continue growing the domestic economy.

We also desperately need comprehensive immigration reform, especially concerning our migrant worker and asylum laws.

One effective way of reducing illegal immigration is increasing our capacity for legal immigration…immigrants have always been critical to making America great.

Are you at least in favor of rule of law?

Yes.

ClownWorld™ isn't.

Are you arguing that Trump is?

Trump sent phony electors to congress to try to stay in office after he lost re-election...that’s hardly a champion for the rule of law.

For what purpose?

I have to sit through "diversity training" at work, which asserts that hiring preference must be given to "diverse people" which is another way of saying, non-straight-white-males. I don't want preferential treatment for straight while males, or anyone else, on the basis of immutable characteristics. Because that would be bigotry. And sane people recognize that; DEI is an edict of ClownWorld™.

I would gladly vote for sanity against Biden…but I don’t have that option.

I have to choose between ClownWorld and TrumpWorld, and TrumpWorld is a bigger threat in the short term, from my perspective.

I'm not voting for Trump because he told me this is happening. I don't have a truth social account. I've never gone to a Trump rally. I don't listen to him speak. I don't really like the guy. I didn't learn that the world around me had become ClownWorld™ from a porn star ****er. I see it all around for myself.

Of course you can, I would expect no less from you.

It's not fear.

It’s not? Are you sure about that? To me it looks like your primary reason for supporting Trump is fear of ClownWorld.

That you think it is shows your own ignorance. It's simply that the world the nutty Democrats propose is not livable for most people. You have to be brainwashed or someone in charge of it to like it.

As a country, we have lost the will to live and let live.

I think America is plenty big enough for people to live the way they want without infringing on the rights of other groups…but nobody seems to understand the “and let live” part of the deal anymore.

In Biden's case, or really I'd say the DNC, is a source of the fear.

No disagreement here. You don’t think the same holds true for MAGA and Trump?

I just want normal again. I want a normal washer that gets cloths clean. I want a toilet that flushes properly. I want a car that doesn't nanny me. I want to be able to buy as many guns as I care to own without the ATF coming to my door.

I have all of those things now…what is stopping you?

If I ever have grandkids, I want them to be able to go to school and not have to worry about drag time where dudes shove their junk in kids faces, and libraries are full of sexually explicit "queer" books.

You are describing fear. Your position on drag queens is rooted in fear, not objective reality.

You accused me of ignorance upthread…now your turn: Drag queens tuck their junk, they aren’t “shoving their junk in kids faces” anywhere.

You are thinking of youth pastors.

I want to do what the **** I want on and with my own property, as long as I'm not harming others. You can't do that in ClownWorld™.

I am doing that right now…aren’t you?

Is ClownWorld in the room with us now?

No, the statement you made is ideological garbage, and retarded. If you wanted to just say, "I think both sides are trying to scare the other into voting for them," you'd have a point, but I think you'd have just said that.

Yeah, that’s not what I am saying. It is true, but it’s not the point I am making.

I am pointing out that we have moved into a point where individual voters themselves are choosing their candidate not for their own merits, but as a hedge against abuse of the office by their opponents…and I think it’s a terribly cynical and hopeless approach to our problems as a country.

You side with Trump for fear of ClownWorld, I side against him for fear of TrumpWorld…neither of us are picking a person who sincerely represents our individual viewpoint.

So I think you're saying a lot more than that, because what you are trying to retcon now doesn't sound anything like "yer a trump supporter 'cause yer a fearful white man, and thankfully yer a dying breed."

Use my actual quote if you want to accuse me of retcon:

Trump is a product of fearful white men...like you and Mike…thankfully, you are a shrinking demographic.

Trump is in fact a product of fearful white men…himself not the least.

Trump supporters writ large are in fact motivated (at least in part) by fear…including those like bug and Mike.

White people of all ideological stripes are in fact a shrinking demographic in the US…

…and I am in fact thankful for any change in demographics that work to keep Trump away from the Oval Office.

 

[jamil]

Did you miss the part where the bit you quoted specifically mentions his first term/the past/45?

No. I didn't miss it. It's the same logic. We were talking about his lack of, I'd say lasting accomplishments, and you excused that with, he had people working against him. I don't see a reason why people wouldn't try to do it again. Why should anyone have any faith that he can accomplish more now than then? Nikki Cheney should bear witness that the CoC's won't give up easily.

I don't expect Trump to accomplish any more than he did in term 1. I'm hopeful he delays the march towards the cliff until 2028. And then, if we can get another America-first-ish POTUS elected then, maybe we have a chance to turn things around.

Unlike INGO soothsayers, I can't predict the future, so I can't say his own party will try to torpedo him again although it would probably be a safe bet. Even Reagan, who presided over a much more orderly era, needed the implied threat of high popularity with the people to be able to do some of what he wanted to do and he was not crossing the MIC and the 3 letter organizations. In Trump's era, people are doing much more sketchy things because they've internalized that no one can or will really hold them accountable

To get things done, Trump or any republican will have to adopt democrat tactics and 'drive it like they stole it', which is to say govern like you have a mandate whether you do or not and let the enemy worry about how they're going to stop you

I don't really disagree with any of that, including the concept of governing like you have a mandate, except it can't work as well for R's as it does with D's, because the D's own way more of the media that people watch.

 

[BugI02]

What crime should Trump be prosecuted for? Hmmm?

Why, the 'crime' of being Trump of course

Isn't that enough? He won't kowtow to the credentialed mandarins