Transport to a Range

[LtScott14]

Seems that the LTCH is the fix all for the "carrying" of handguns. If our PD stops you for a traffic infraction, they usually ask if you have any illegal items in your vehicle? I have had people say "no", and I can see a pistol handle, or holster, or loaded magazine in the drink cup of your console. Now do I believe you? Start dancing in circles on that. Why lie to the Police Officer? We are trained lie detector enforcers.

If you are asked to step out from your vehicle, it will be time to say the LTCH word and maybe not succomb to an all out search of your vehicle and person. Attitude will make the world fly, so don't mess up with smart remarks. I know that OC carry is legal within it's rights, but I have to say if you are sporting an assault vest,BDU's, tactical gear in general on the street, my mind would ask what Bank Job are you going to? Just a bit of advice to stay in the quality of enjoyment of your firearms, owner allowed. Stay safe

 

[ryknoll3]

Seems that the LTCH is the fix all for the "carrying" of handguns. If our PD stops you for a traffic infraction, they usually ask if you have any illegal items in your vehicle? I have had people say "no", and I can see a pistol handle, or holster, or loaded magazine in the drink cup of your console. Now do I believe you? Start dancing in circles on that. Why lie to the Police Officer? We are trained lie detector enforcers.

If you are asked to step out from your vehicle, it will be time to say the LTCH word and maybe not succomb to an all out search of your vehicle and person. Attitude will make the world fly, so don't mess up with smart remarks. I know that OC carry is legal within it's rights, but I have to say if you are sporting an assault vest,BDU's, tactical gear in general on the street, my mind would ask what Bank Job are you going to? Just a bit of advice to stay in the quality of enjoyment of your firearms, owner allowed. Stay safe

WHAT???? Who said anything about lying to a police officer. I can't figure out what the crap you're talking about in any part of this post, except that if you ask if I have anything illegal, I say no and you see a pistol handle or holster, you're not going to believe me and I will have to dance in circles.

 

[Roadie]

Seems that the LTCH is the fix all for the "carrying" of handguns. If our PD stops you for a traffic infraction, they usually ask if you have any illegal items in your vehicle? I have had people say "no", and I can see a pistol handle, or holster, or loaded magazine in the drink cup of your console. Now do I believe you? Start dancing in circles on that. Why lie to the Police Officer? We are trained lie detector enforcers.

If you are asked to step out from your vehicle, it will be time to say the LTCH word and maybe not succomb to an all out search of your vehicle and person. Attitude will make the world fly, so don't mess up with smart remarks. I know that OC carry is legal within it's rights, but I have to say if you are sporting an assault vest,BDU's, tactical gear in general on the street, my mind would ask what Bank Job are you going to? Just a bit of advice to stay in the quality of enjoyment of your firearms, owner allowed. Stay safe

So, how is answering no to the "illegal items" question lying to the police officer, if you have a handgun and an LTCH??

What probable cause, exactly, would you have for searching the vehicle??

"I'm sorry Officer, I do not consent to any searches at this time."

So, would you search anyway?

 

[groovatron]

Seems that the LTCH is the fix all for the "carrying" of handguns. If our PD stops you for a traffic infraction, they usually ask if you have any illegal items in your vehicle? I have had people say "no", and I can see a pistol handle, or holster, or loaded magazine in the drink cup of your console. Now do I believe you? Start dancing in circles on that. Why lie to the Police Officer? We are trained lie detector enforcers.

So basically you're saying that you are going to assume that if a person answers "no," that they have illegal items? Dancing in circles? WTF!!!

If you are asked to step out from your vehicle, it will be time to say the LTCH word and maybe not succomb to an all out search of your vehicle and person. Attitude will make the world fly, so don't mess up with smart remarks. I know that OC carry is legal within it's rights, but I have to say if you are sporting an assault vest,BDU's, tactical gear in general on the street, my mind would ask what Bank Job are you going to? Just a bit of advice to stay in the quality of enjoyment of your firearms, owner allowed. Stay safe

I have a real problem with your entire post. If you pulled me over and searched my car and person without my consent and no legitamite probable cause, then you have just failed in a big way. You better have more reason then that.

Why did you capitalize "Bank Job?"

I have read this post 10 x's and it still makes zero sense to me.
I will have to read your other posts since you have been a member to come to a conclusion, but I hope you just came across this way on accident.........or I have a real hard time understanding what your point is.

 

[ATM]

Illegal items? No.


Guns? Magazines? Of course!

 

[groovatron]

Illegal items? No.


Guns? Magazines? Of course!

Nothing to see here.....just some bacon

 

[jsharmon7]

I know at some point somebody on INGO had witnessed DNR checking everyone at the range for their LTCH. Of course I can't find it on here now, but I did find this from Glocktalk last year:

Never been to a range - Glock Talk

If you're with somebody with an LTCH then I guess you could say it's theirs, but if DNR sees you holding it before you see them, well you're probably in trouble. I know everyone disagrees on this but I don't think anyone wants to be the test case since the law does state that you have to have the LTCH to carry it on or about your person. My amateur interpretation is that "about your person" includes holding it in your hand. As somebody else mentioned, the L1 route is pretty quick. The best thing to do is wait a week to get the license and then go shoot as much ammo at the range as you can afford.

 

[downzero]

Seems that the LTCH is the fix all for the "carrying" of handguns. If our PD stops you for a traffic infraction, they usually ask if you have any illegal items in your vehicle? I have had people say "no", and I can see a pistol handle, or holster, or loaded magazine in the drink cup of your console. Now do I believe you? Start dancing in circles on that. Why lie to the Police Officer? We are trained lie detector enforcers.

If you are asked to step out from your vehicle, it will be time to say the LTCH word and maybe not succomb to an all out search of your vehicle and person. Attitude will make the world fly, so don't mess up with smart remarks. I know that OC carry is legal within it's rights, but I have to say if you are sporting an assault vest,BDU's, tactical gear in general on the street, my mind would ask what Bank Job are you going to? Just a bit of advice to stay in the quality of enjoyment of your firearms, owner allowed. Stay safe

I hope you're not a real police officer.

If you are, get to looking for my stolen gun in Porter County instead of spouting off on the Internet.

 

[jbombelli]

Seems that the LTCH is the fix all for the "carrying" of handguns. If our PD stops you for a traffic infraction, they usually ask if you have any illegal items in your vehicle? I have had people say "no", and I can see a pistol handle, or holster, or loaded magazine in the drink cup of your console. Now do I believe you? Start dancing in circles on that. Why lie to the Police Officer? We are trained lie detector enforcers.

If you are asked to step out from your vehicle, it will be time to say the LTCH word and maybe not succomb to an all out search of your vehicle and person. Attitude will make the world fly, so don't mess up with smart remarks. I know that OC carry is legal within it's rights, but I have to say if you are sporting an assault vest,BDU's, tactical gear in general on the street, my mind would ask what Bank Job are you going to? Just a bit of advice to stay in the quality of enjoyment of your firearms, owner allowed. Stay safe

You pull me over, I'm not going to answer your questions, per the instruction of my attorney. I'm not going to consent to any searches of my vehicle or my person, again per the instruction of my attorney. I will produce my LTCH on demand, and I will hand over my driver's license and registration, as required. I'm also not going to argue with you by the side of the road. But rest assured, every single detail of that stop will be scrutinized in depth later by my attorney, who hates cops with a passion. If you step even ONE TINY FRACTION OF AN INCH over the line, we'll be seeing each other again. That is a promise. I'm always on the lookout for an extra payday. So remember that the next time you're tearing someone's car apart because they were carrying a gun, and told you they had nothing illegal in the car. It might just be me.

Not cooperating with your game of 20 questions is NOT a crime, and does not give you PC for anything whatsoever. Neither does my walking down the street carrying a loaded AK-47, along with body armor and chest rig. I don't care what your "mind is asking", I don't have to answer it.

So go ahead tear my car apart, or detain me and lean on me when I refuse to answer your questions because "attitude makes the world fly." Step on my rights. I dare you. My attorney dares you, as well.

 

[ihateiraq]

Do ranges that rent handguns require a LTCH? If not how is this any different? My wife shoots my handgun all the time, she has yet to get her LTCH. She wanted to be comfortable around them first before getting LTCH.

my old lady and i have gone to different ranges a number of times, both before and after she got her ltch. neither of us have ever been asked to produce them, so i would say they dont. your guess is as good as mine whether or not theyre supposed to though. i always took the code to mean you couldnt tote it around on your person. apparently i was wrong...or maybe not...which way is the wind blowing?

 

[Roadie]

...and let's not forget the recent Indiana Supreme Court ruling that determined possessing an LTCH is NOT probable cause for a search of a vehicle.

Though, it doesn't sound like LtScott would let that stand in his way...

 

[ihateiraq]

So go ahead tear my car apart, or detain me and lean on me when I refuse to answer your questions because "attitude makes the world fly." Step on my rights. I dare you. My attorney dares you, as well.

Though, it doesn't sound like LtScott would let that stand in his way...

act a fool if you want to...just wait till he catches you on your motorcycle.

 

[public servant]

act a fool if you want to...just wait till he catches you on your motorcycle.

 

[ihateiraq]

relax. i didnt mean he was going to run them over.




i just meant he was going to shoot them in the spine.

 

[Roadie]

act a fool if you want to...just wait till he catches you on your motorcycle.

Dang, that was harsh...my wife almost spit her drink on her new laptop...

 

[groovatron]

Hey....it's the LtScott14 family reunion...........I believe they invented the whole circle dancin' thing

 

[kludge]

The way I see it there is no difference in you holding one of my guns at my house without a permit or being at a gun range so long as it is not run by the State. private property rules.

Correct.

And it would be just as technically illegal.

 

[Stschil]

I sincerely wish there was a "Common Sense" pill that the pencil pushers could be required to take during the entire time they are seated in Congress. It would make things so much easier.

But then again,,,a large majority of our 'so called' representatives are/were lawyers prior to taking office. It just makes sense to them to write things that no one else can understand or are so open to judicial interpretation that no two people can recieve the same justice

 

[jon5212]

My feeling is if I'm with my wife who does not have a LTCH I do, she can shoot my gun as I am present and she can handle it as it is with my permission. The state and federal government can kiss my behind.

 

[Bill of Rights]

OK... I was the one who noticed the apparent discrepancy in the statute that indicated to me that you have to have the LTCH to even touch a handgun outside of your home or property. By a strict reading of the IC, that is correct. What has been lost in the re-posts of my theory is A) I am not a lawyer and B) I did say when I first put the thought out in the open forum that the law is not enforced this way.

On the first point, I don't need to be a lawyer to understand the common and otherwise-undefined meanings of words in the English language:

IC 35-47-2-1
Carrying a handgun without a license or by person convicted of domestic battery
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsection (b) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.
(b) Unless the person's right to possess a firearm has been restored under IC 35-47-4-7, a person who has been convicted of domestic battery under IC 35-42-2-1.3 may not possess or carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body in the person's dwelling or on the person's property or fixed place of business.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32. Amended by P.L.326-1987, SEC.1; P.L.195-2003, SEC.6; P.L.98-2004, SEC.155; P.L.118-2007, SEC.35.
IC 35-47-2-2
Excepted persons
Sec. 2. Section 1 of this chapter does not apply to:
(1) marshals;
(2) sheriffs;
(3) the commissioner of the department of correction or persons authorized by him in writing to carry firearms;
(4) judicial officers;
(5) law enforcement officers;
(6) members of the armed forces of the United States or of the national guard or organized reserves while they are on duty;
(7) regularly enrolled members of any organization duly authorized to purchase or receive such weapons from the United States or from this state who are at or are going to or from their place of assembly or target practice;
(8) employees of the United States duly authorized to carry handguns;
(9) employees of express companies when engaged in company business;
(10) any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms or the agent or representative of any such person having in his possession, using, or carrying a handgun in the usual or ordinary course of that business; or
(11) any person while carrying a handgun unloaded and in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or to a place of repair or back to his dwelling or fixed place of business, or in moving from one dwelling or business to another.
As added by P.L.311-1983, SEC.32.

...a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body, except in the person's dwelling, on the person's property or fixed place of business, without a license issued under this chapter being in the person's possession.

If it is in your hand, you are carrying it on or about your body. It is impossible to not do so. Instead of the pistol, take the example of a bottle of cocaine. If you are a pharmacist or a physician, you may have that bottle, as you have a license allowing you to do so. If you do not, you may not. (Cocaine is still used in some medical procedures) So what happens when the police officer walks in and finds you with the bottle of cocaine in your hand? Are you or are you not "carrying" it?

Please note that I am not in favor of this interpretation of the law. I do not like it, but not liking it will not change it. Hopefully, the letter I wrote to one of our state senators will begin to change the law to recognize the need for practice and the right of people to do so.

Until such time as that law DOES change, however, consider this exercise in semantics to be one more reason to

GET THE LICENSE!!

Blessings,
Bill