To mask or not to mask....That is the question. Part II

[jamil]

She has a very different perspective on what life/living is than I do.

Some people behind the iron curtain were quite content.

 

[jamil]

He is totally confusing mRNA gene therapy with mRNA protein therapy.
This mistake leads to all the hyper-statements and fear exhibited.

I don’t understand the need for some people on the anti side to cling to the gene therapy angle as if their whole basis for skepticism must have that be true.

 

[rob63]

I don’t understand the need for some people on the anti side to cling to the gene therapy angle as if their whole basis for skepticism must have that be true.

I am constantly mystified by people that can recognize that what the MSM puts out is often biased nonsense, but then turn around and believe every whacko website that promotes some conspiracy theory. I don't get it.

Equally mystified by people that recognize how many times their favorite news source has been exposed to be wrong or just plain lying and continue to fall for the next hot story.

There seems to be a constant desire to be outraged at something, and a willingness to suspend skepticism to achieve it.

 

[jamil]

I am constantly mystified by people that can recognize that what the MSM puts out is often biased nonsense, but then turn around and believe every whacko website that promotes some conspiracy theory. I don't get it.

Equally mystified by people that recognize how many times their favorite news source has been exposed to be wrong or just plain lying and continue to fall for the next hot story.

There seems to be a constant desire to be outraged at something, and a willingness to suspend skepticism to achieve it.

I think skepticism is great. But only if it's evenly applied. I think that's really hard to do. One thing I think helps is to apply the same skepticism to what you want to believe as you would to what you don't want to believe. I don't think anyone can consistently do that all the time.

 

[wtburnette]

Part of the problem is there is not one thing most of us would be surprised about hearing the Left pulling, or trying to pull. They are absolutely going down the socialism/communism/dictatorship path, so it's easily to believe the worst. Part of that is giving them the benefit of the doubt in the past, only to have whatever it was come back and be found as true. As the meme says, I'm running out of conspiracy theories as they're all coming true.

 

[Leadeye]

Who makes the N95 and hospital masks?

Who makes the homemade cloth masks?

Always follow the money

 

[jamil]

Part of the problem is there is not one thing most of us would be surprised about hearing the Left pulling, or trying to pull. They are absolutely going down the socialism/communism/dictatorship path, so it's easily to believe the worst. Part of that is giving them the benefit of the doubt in the past, only to have whatever it was come back and be found as true. As the meme says, I'm running out of conspiracy theories as they're all coming true.

It's a fair point. I often think the parody sites like Babylon Bee aren't as creative as actual bat **** crazy things they actually say and believe.

 

[indyartisan]

A voice of reason from our community.

 

[jamil]

A voice of reason from our community.

I'd like to hear people with a better knowledge of the science opinion on this. I mean. It sounds good to me. But it's pretty far outside of my area of expertise.

 

[Jaybird1980]

I'd like to hear people with a better knowledge of the science opinion on this. I mean. It sounds good to me. But it's pretty far outside of my area of expertise.

That fella sure talks fast.

I will say some of that makes sense and is the basics that most people should already know. The technical stuff like you said is definitely out of my expertise.

 

[NHT3]

I'm FAR from a rocket surgeon but this doesn't seem complicated to me.

 

[idkfa]

I'd like to hear people with a better knowledge of the science opinion on this. I mean. It sounds good to me. But it's pretty far outside of my area of expertise.

Then don't trust anyone and research each claim yourself, else you'll be just as easily dissuaded by another medical professional espousing an opposite viewpoint.

For example, @chipbennett recently replied with his "analysis" of the sources I provided on the matter of what is and what is not gene therapy, and that post is filled with astounding pseudoscientific garbage, such as "the mRNA payload was DNA" or "mRNA is the vehicle to transport synthetic RNA ... across the brain-blood barrier" (more on that in another post).

And yet, it was delivered with such unrelenting authority, that you are convinced (based on your reply) that he is correct, and that mRNA vaccines are not gene therapies.

 

[idkfa]

I'm FAR from a rocket surgeon but this doesn't seem complicated to me.

You and thousands of others are correct in your conclusions, but it is somewhat more complicated though.
Regular surgical masks do stop a substantial amount of actual viral particles, and that's a fact.

The reason why they do is -- likely -- that at that size, electrostatic adsorption of viral particles onto the mask fabric might play a substantial role.

But then masks -- including N95 -- failed to prevent patients from either influenza-like illness or from getting a confirmed case of influenza or COVID in every single controlled clinical trial that attempted to evaluate their efficacy.

Why? The reason may (I use "may" because this cause-and-effect has never been proven) lie in the fact that the minimal infective dose of these respiratory viruses is one 1-5 µm droplet, so if one is in the cloud, they are getting the virus and the disease.
Also, let's not forget the mucosa of the eye.

So essentially, you are guaranteed to get the infection unless you have literally 100% protection which is only conferred by a specialized respirator or a positive-pressure BCL 4 suit.
This is what mask advocates do not understand.

 

[idkfa]

I don’t understand the need for some people on the anti side to cling to the gene therapy angle as if their whole basis for skepticism must have that be true.

Because it's not an "angle" and definitions do matter.
If not, then I have a 100 round-per-minute clip magazine to sell you.

 

[printcraft]

Paper masks for a virus were/are a psychological crutch to keep people from panicking.
They do nothing else.

 

[idkfa]

He is totally confusing mRNA gene therapy with mRNA protein therapy.
This mistake leads to all the hyper-statements and fear exhibited.

No, I am not confusing anything, there isn't a clear delineation between the two.
Protein therapy is, well, (primarily) therapy that uses proteins.
Gene therapy is the therapy that employs delivering genes into the cells or altering the function of existing genes.

But the key part of it is that goal of gene therapy is the production of protein.
If you introduce mRNA into the body, you do so in the hope that it produces protein.
It is not intended to do anything else.

For example, on the topic of protein therapy vs. gene therapy, some specifically say that "Gene therapy can actually be considered a form of protein therapy."

 

[DadSmith]

I'm at the Cincinnati VA right now and wearing a mask.

 

[nonobaddog]

Then don't trust anyone and research each claim yourself, else you'll be just as easily dissuaded by another medical professional espousing an opposite viewpoint.

For example, @chipbennett recently replied with his "analysis" of the sources I provided on the matter of what is and what is not gene therapy, and that post is filled with astounding pseudoscientific garbage, such as "the mRNA payload was DNA" or "mRNA is the vehicle to transport synthetic RNA ... across the brain-blood barrier" (more on that in another post).

And yet, it was delivered with such unrelenting authority, that you are convinced (based on your reply) that he is correct, and that mRNA vaccines are not gene therapies.

You need to re-read chip's post with a tiny bit of an open mind. He is correct.

The "m" in mRNA is for messenger. The message is a sequence. This sequence is used in the cell cytoplasm to make a protein. These messengers are used naturally all the time in the cells. The nucleus (where the genes are in the DNA) sends out mRNA to the cytoplasm all the time to make various proteins.

With an mRNA vaccine the message also goes to the cytoplasm to make a specific protein (in the case of the COVID vaccine the sequence makes a portion of the spike protein) which the immune system reacts to.

No genes are affected in this process. No DNA is affected in this process. This is NOT gene therapy.

 

[Magyars]

Explain this to me.....some gatherings good. Some gathering bad?

Fauci berates mass outdoor gathering in South Dakota, but gives Obama's birthday bash a pass

Social media users piled on Dr. Anthony Fauci for what many felt was a double standard on gatherins

www.foxnews.com

 

[Ingomike]

I am beyond over the semantics and wordsmithing. For those of you that may know these words and definitions keep in mind that lay people may use these words in different context to convey information to another lay person. I have found it to be useless to spend time trying to correct every little thing the public says wrong in reference to my career and it usually just pizzes folks off.

If not for the politicalization of this topic it wouldn't be a big deal. And if you were at the range and someone asked you to pick up, their clip they dropped and fell in your lane, you would know exactly what they meant.

This is not the normal vaccine, the definition of which had to be changed to call it such, and lay folks lack the scientific vocabulary to precisely articulate what it is. It doesn't mean they are stupid...