TMZ shows video footage of cop shooting civilian in hotel hallway.

[Kutnupe14]

I know I'm late to this party, but I did read the whole 23 pages so far after watching the video. You are never going to convince me that this was not murder. Pure and simple.

I'm just wondering, if you saw that the now deceased was repeatedly reaching behind his back, how would you think many in LE would view that? That's all I'm asking.

 

[Route 45]

Listened to some of the trial today. Prosecutor said that he did not point the pellet gun out of the window because the screen was still in place/intact, so those arguing that somehow the shoot was justified because he was playing stupid games pointing a rifle out of a window might want to check the facts before making such statements.... not to mention that when shot he was unarmed.

It doesn't matter if he pointed the rifle out of the window or not. All that matters is that it was reported that he had pointed the rifle out of the window. The police can only go by the information that they receive. The police handled the situation horribly, which resulted in the death of the guy in the hallway, but they didn't pick this hotel room at random just to shoot somebody.

 

[Butch627]

Aren't police trained to and supposed to read people? From the moment he turned the corner from the surprised look on his face, to the way he dropped what was in his hands, his body english, shaky trembling voice, sobbing, etc everything about him seemed to me that he did not pose an aggressive threat. I saw nothing threatening about him at all. To the LE in this thread did you see the same? How often do you find someone able to so convincingly fake emotions when they have several AR's pointed at them? I understand if there is one cop with his service revolver drawn shooting when an aggressive uncooperative suspicious person reaches back like that but 3 guys with AR's aimed at him seem like they should have waited until they saw a weapon or real aggression.

I want to see the Sargent brought back from abroad to face civil charges, I find him more guilty than the shooter for what happened and I feel both should have been convicted of criminal charges. I think the Sargent probably spooked the shooter as much as he did the victim.

Was there more than one room around that blind corner? If so what if two or 3 people from a different room totally drunk and horsing around had walked into that situation? There may have been 3 bodies lying there. What if the cops were on the wrong floor? Mesa needs new leadership from the top down everyone involved with the training, supervision, and promotion of the 2 cops needs to be demoted or fired. I am not in any way anti cop but letting these two go without criminal convictions and no shakeups in the Mesa PD gives anyone who is anti cop nothing but ammo to badmouth all LE.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Aren't police trained to and supposed to read people? From the moment he turned the corner from the surprised look on his face, to the way he dropped what was in his hands, his body english, shaky trembling voice, sobbing, etc everything about him seemed to me that he did not pose an aggressive threat. I saw nothing threatening about him at all. To the LE in this thread did you see the same? How often do you find someone able to so convincingly fake emotions when they have several AR's pointed at them? I understand if there is one cop with his service revolver drawn shooting when an aggressive uncooperative suspicious person reaches back like that but 3 guys with AR's aimed at him seem like they should have waited until they saw a weapon or real aggression.

I want to see the Sargent brought back from abroad to face civil charges, I find him more guilty than the shooter for what happened and I feel both should have been convicted of criminal charges. I think the Sargent probably spooked the shooter as much as he did the victim.

Was there more than one room around that blind corner? If so what if two or 3 people from a different room totally drunk and horsing around had walked into that situation? There may have been 3 bodies lying there. What if the cops were on the wrong floor? Mesa needs new leadership from the top down everyone involved with the training, supervision, and promotion of the 2 cops needs to be demoted or fired. I am not in any way anti cop but letting these two go without criminal convictions and no shakeups in the Mesa PD gives anyone who is anti cop nothing but ammo to badmouth all LE.

I wasn't ever going to give anyone the benefit of the doubt (that I intended to arrest) until they were in cuffs. Cops don't really "read" people, they just are taught body language "clues": blading the body, clenched fists, eye contact avoidance, swaying back and forth, etc.

 

[Beowulf]

I wasn't ever going to give anyone the benefit of the doubt (that I intended to arrest) until they were in cuffs. Cops don't really "read" people, they just are taught body language "clues": blading the body, clenched fists, eye contact avoidance, swaying back and forth, etc.

That is what I fundamentally don't understand about this situation. I'm certainly no elite SWAT commando or even a deputy dog with a badge out of cracker jack's box, but what I saw in that video can't be any sort of real procedure. You have 6 officers in the hallway, pointing weapons at the guy (along with one woman in cuffs). Why insist on that simon-says-from-hell approach? Even if they feared there was another party in the room, amped up on meth, wearing ceramic/kevlar body armor, and armed with a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range, what they had the victim (and he certainly was a victim) do was insane. "Hands up, on your knees, cross your feet, and crawl... and if you fall, don't catch your self or we will kill you".

Now, first of all, human beings (and pretty much any animal with a central nervous system and a brain) will try to brace/catch themselves instinctively if you fall. So, that was a stupid request. Second, cross your feet and crawl? How about turn around, put your hands on your head and walk slowly backwards? That at least he would have had some semblance of a chance to do without immediately failing.

What it looks like to me is that Sergeant Little Dick had no clue what he was doing and decided to use his "respect my authority" voice to pretend to have any semblance of control and Deputy Quick Draw was pissing his pants and should never have been allowed to have a pencil with a sharp point, let along a loaded gun. The fact that the shooter was immediately thrown to the wolves by his bosses and the good Sergeant immediately retired and [STRIKE]fled the country[/STRIKE] followed his dream of living in a shack in the Philippines [STRIKE]where he hoped he wouldn't be extradited[/STRIKE] and live the quiet life.

But again, what do I know? I'm just a regular Joe Schmoe.

 

[Kutnupe14]

That is what I fundamentally don't understand about this situation. I'm certainly no elite SWAT commando or even a deputy dog with a badge out of cracker jack's box, but what I saw in that video can't be any sort of real procedure. You have 6 officers in the hallway, pointing weapons at the guy (along with one woman in cuffs). Why insist on that simon-says-from-hell approach? Even if they feared there was another party in the room, amped up on meth, wearing ceramic/kevlar body armor, and armed with a phased plasma rifle in the 40 watt range, what they had the victim (and he certainly was a victim) do was insane. "Hands up, on your knees, cross your feet, and crawl... and if you fall, don't catch your self or we will kill you".

Now, first of all, human beings (and pretty much any animal with a central nervous system and a brain) will try to brace/catch themselves instinctively if you fall. So, that was a stupid request. Second, cross your feet and crawl? How about turn around, put your hands on your head and walk slowly backwards? That at least he would have had some semblance of a chance to do without immediately failing.

What it looks like to me is that Sergeant Little Dick had no clue what he was doing and decided to use his "respect my authority" voice to pretend to have any semblance of control and Deputy Quick Draw was pissing his pants and should never have been allowed to have a pencil with a sharp point, let along a loaded gun. The fact that the shooter was immediately thrown to the wolves by his bosses and the good Sergeant immediately retired and [STRIKE]fled the country[/STRIKE] followed his dream of living in a shack in the Philippines [STRIKE]where he hoped he wouldn't be extradited[/STRIKE] and live the quiet life.

But again, what do I know? I'm just a regular Joe Schmoe.

The guy giving the commands did a horrible job. I place a LOT of fault on him too.

 

[Sling10mm]

I guess you missed the point of my comment, so let me se if I can better explain it.

I understand the police were there because they were told someone was pointing a gun out of the window, but there are some posting in this thread blaming the victim for "playing stupid games" which resulted in them being shot. I'm just pointing out that the victim had not in fact pointed the gun out of the window, and so was not playing a stupid game that some appear to think would justify him being shot. I would posit that he had no idea why the police were there, or why they were drawing down on him. If he had been pointing the rifle out the window, he may have had a clue that they were there for him, but again, he hadn't done that, so his confusion as to why they were gunning for him might be understandable.

It doesn't matter if he pointed the rifle out of the window or not. All that matters is that it was reported that he had pointed the rifle out of the window. The police can only go by the information that they receive. The police handled the situation horribly, which resulted in the death of the guy in the hallway, but they didn't pick this hotel room at random just to shoot somebody.

 

[phylodog]

It does not matter why the police were called to the scene. It does not matter whether the people involved were guilty of pointing a rifle, fake rifle or boat oar out or toward the window of a hotel, house, Ferrari or the Titanic. The only thing that really matters is what happens during the interaction between the police and the involved persons they are dealing with. Every reported crime is BS until its verified regardless of how minor or how serious. The victim in this case could have just finished cutting the heads off of three nuns in his hotel room and the police could have been notified of that very thing and it does not change the inappropriate way this was handled.

The Sgt in this incident was a power tripping douche of the highest order. The officer who fired does not have the emotional maturity or courage to perform this type of work. A man died as a result and it's ****ed up. It doesn't require an overhaul of police policy in this country. It doesn't lump every LEO from sea to shining sea into the same categories of the two involved here. It was ****, it shouldn't have happened, it can't be taken back and that man's wife and children should be compensated as best the state is capable for the travesty. There really isn't much else to say about the matter. Ignore the trolls.

 

[sidewinder27]

Great article on why it is nearly impossible to convict an officer. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...n-aren-t-convicted-using-lethal-force-n619961

 

[phylodog]

Great article on why it is nearly impossible to convict an officer. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...n-aren-t-convicted-using-lethal-force-n619961

"The reasons why officers across the country are often not charged is due to a complicated set of factors unique to each case including the lack of a thorough investigation, the weight of an officer’s word, and, of course, the softer approach prosecutors take with police defendants said University of Baltimore Law School Professor David Jaros"

What a biased piece of **** article. How convenient to forget to add that "the officer was justified" as a reason why an officer might not be charged with murder for using lethal force. Typical bull**** our current crop of "unbiased" media spoon feeds to the sheep.

 

[actaeon277]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to phylodog again.

It does not matter why the police were called to the scene. It does not matter whether the people involved were guilty of pointing a rifle, fake rifle or boat oar out or toward the window of a hotel, house, Ferrari or the Titanic. The only thing that really matters is what happens during the interaction between the police and the involved persons they are dealing with. Every reported crime is BS until its verified regardless of how minor or how serious. The victim in this case could have just finished cutting the heads off of three nuns in his hotel room and the police could have been notified of that very thing and it does not change the inappropriate way this was handled.

The Sgt in this incident was a power tripping douche of the highest order. The officer who fired does not have the emotional maturity or courage to perform this type of work. A man died as a result and it's ****ed up. It doesn't require an overhaul of police policy in this country. It doesn't lump every LEO from sea to shining sea into the same categories of the two involved here. It was ****, it shouldn't have happened, it can't be taken back and that man's wife and children should be compensated as best the state is capable for the travesty. There really isn't much else to say about the matter. Ignore the trolls.

 

[Sylvain]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to phylodog again.

Got him for you.

 

[Beowulf]

It does not matter why the police were called to the scene. It does not matter whether the people involved were guilty of pointing a rifle, fake rifle or boat oar out or toward the window of a hotel, house, Ferrari or the Titanic. The only thing that really matters is what happens during the interaction between the police and the involved persons they are dealing with. Every reported crime is BS until its verified regardless of how minor or how serious. The victim in this case could have just finished cutting the heads off of three nuns in his hotel room and the police could have been notified of that very thing and it does not change the inappropriate way this was handled.

The Sgt in this incident was a power tripping douche of the highest order. The officer who fired does not have the emotional maturity or courage to perform this type of work. A man died as a result and it's ****ed up. It doesn't require an overhaul of police policy in this country. It doesn't lump every LEO from sea to shining sea into the same categories of the two involved here. It was ****, it shouldn't have happened, it can't be taken back and that man's wife and children should be compensated as best the state is capable for the travesty. There really isn't much else to say about the matter. Ignore the trolls.

I agree with everything you said except the bolded section. We really do need a massive overhaul of police policy in this country. For starters, every police department needs to start focusing on de-escalation training. There have several examples of departments successfully implementing de-escalation training recently and reducing the number of police involved shootings (even in the case of police dealing with armed suspects, which is the case in police shootings most of the time... examples like this notwithstanding). There has been a marked ramping up in the militarization of police in America over the last few decades and really amping up with the War on Drugs, and it really needs to stop.

 

[phylodog]

We can agree to disagree

 

[jedi]

Follow the money.
What you want the redoing of policy will not occur unless you can make money off of it.
Money, lots of it, is made from the war on drugs and making the police more military like.

 

[phylodog]

I'm 100% in favor of ending the war on drugs.

 

[jedi]

Sadly it will not end unless "you", not you phylodog, can find a way to make even more money off the new scheme.

 

[phylodog]

I won't disagree but who "you" is should be clear to everyone, it ain't the police.

 

[rhino]

I'm 100% in favor of ending the war on drugs.

Me too. I hate illicit/recreational drug use and I do not (to my knowledge) associate with people who do those things, but the government should not have the power to dictate what people can and can't do in that regard.

 

[jedi]

I won't disagree but who "you" is should be clear to everyone, it ain't the police.

Correct.
Its not the police, rank and file, that is make money from the war on drugs. Its those in decision making power.