Time to *itch-slap Iran?

Mgderf

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Looks to me like Iran needs another reminder about their place in the Geo-political spectrum.
I don't think they will stop this provocation until the U.S. strikes back.
Much like a child, Iran is testing their limits, but I don't think they're going to like the outcome, especially if they keep this crap up.
 

actaeon277

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The question is, what will Russia do?
Right now, Putin has stated his support for Iran.

But the question is, what actions will cause what response?

In Reagan's day, the Navy sunk half of Iran's fleet in a few hours.
The Russians did nothing.
Either because there was no War (no boots on the ground), or because they were afraid of the Cowboy Politics that Reagan was attributed to.
 

T.Lex

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So what form would the "reminder" take?

Glass parking lot? Cruise missile strikes on chemical facilities? Somewhere in between?

Curious where INGOers are on that spectrum.

As for me, taking out the SAM site that launched the missile is a starting point. If it was a ship, so be it.

Appropriate calls to appropriate foreign governments with appropriate warnings, of course.

Plenty of provocations have been ignored in the past - by both sides - at least for awhile.
 

Mgderf

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The question is, what will Russia do?
Right now, Putin has stated his support for Iran.

But the question is, what actions will cause what response?

In Reagan's day, the Navy sunk half of Iran's fleet in a few hours.
The Russians did nothing.
Either because there was no War (no boots on the ground), or because they were afraid of the Cowboy Politics that Reagan was attributed to.

I think the vast majority of the rest of the world are more worried about Trump being unpredictable than Reagan ever was.
Reagan was more or less a known quantity. You knew where he stood, because he told you so to your face.

Trump likes to leave people wondering, and I for one, think that's a good thing.
 

actaeon277

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I think the vast majority of the rest of the world are more worried about Trump being unpredictable than Reagan ever was.
Reagan was more or less a known quantity. You knew where he stood, because he told you so to your face.

Trump likes to leave people wondering, and I for one, think that's a good thing.

I disagree. Wishy Washy policy means people (nations) may do something, such as shoot down something, and get away with it.
But that's the point someone decides to escalate.
 

Mgderf

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Sink their navy. Hit missile & radar sites. Hit their nuclear sites which will continue to be a problem. Lets set them back 20 years

If they continue with their enhanced uranium enrichment, Israel will take care of those.
I think that's right around the corner. like maybe this week...
 

Cameramonkey

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So what form would the "reminder" take?

Glass parking lot? Cruise missile strikes on chemical facilities? Somewhere in between?

Curious where INGOers are on that spectrum.

As for me, taking out the SAM site that launched the missile is a starting point. If it was a ship, so be it.

Appropriate calls to appropriate foreign governments with appropriate warnings, of course.

Plenty of provocations have been ignored in the past - by both sides - at least for awhile.

Agreed. Maybe multiple missle/radar sites as a show of force. I think that is a measured, appropriate response much like a parent would take away the x-box because the child was caught playing when they shouldnt have been. Or take away the car because the kid cant follow the speed limit and now has a $200 ticket. And in the latter example, not only take away his car, but not allow him to drive yours either; "Not only are we going to take away the car you were speeding in, we are also going to remove your ability to do it again with any of the other cars as well." (Not saying we should take out ALL SAM sites)
 

COOPADUP

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This situation is getting very dangerous. All saber rattling aside, who wants to get plunged into a long drawn out war and our economy taking a toilet dive.
Mgderf is correct, Trump has slapped them in the face and they really don't know how to react. It's been a long time since there has been a president with a set, but he must ensure he listens to his top commanders on this one.
 

Romero Zombie

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Anyone else think this whole thing is just a false flag operation to help out those poor Military Industrial Complex folks? Seal team 3 plants a few mines and Trump says Iran did it? Wouldn’t surprise me at all.
 

two70

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Agreed. Maybe multiple missle/radar sites as a show of force. I think that is a measured, appropriate response much like a parent would take away the x-box because the child was caught playing when they shouldnt have been. Or take away the car because the kid cant follow the speed limit and now has a $200 ticket. And in the latter example, not only take away his car, but not allow him to drive yours either; "Not only are we going to take away the car you were speeding in, we are also going to remove your ability to do it again with any of the other cars as well." (Not saying we should take out ALL SAM sites)

IMO, the problem with a "measured, appropriate" response as it is typically stated is that it allows plenty of opportunity for Iran to respond and escalate the situation even more. A quick, overwhelming response that does enough damage to prevent Iran from being an effective pain in the ass for the next 5-10 years would be preferable and help prevent an escalation loop from occurring.

It really pisses me off to think that a lot of this could, perhaps, have been avoided if Obama would have had enough spine to at least verbally support the popular uprising that sprung up in Iran briefly during his term. The lack of any kind of outside support doomed the uprising from the beginning and ensured that those in Tehran would have an even firmer control of the populace. Then of course the nuclear arms deal only exasperated the situation and emboldened Iran.
 

T.Lex

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Anyone else think this whole thing is just a false flag operation to help out those poor Military Industrial Complex folks? Seal team 3 plants a few mines and Trump says Iran did it? Wouldn’t surprise me at all.

If Iran proclaims that they shot down the drone, how can it be a false flag?

The limpet mines... ok... maybe... since Iran actually denied it... and floated (pardon the pun) that those were actual false flag ops.

But the drone? I'm not seeing it.
 

MarkC

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IMO, the problem with a "measured, appropriate" response as it is typically stated is that it allows plenty of opportunity for Iran to respond and escalate the situation even more. A quick, overwhelming response that does enough damage to prevent Iran from being an effective pain in the ass for the next 5-10 years would be preferable and help prevent an escalation loop from occurring.

It really pisses me off to think that a lot of this could, perhaps, have been avoided if Obama would have had enough spine to at least verbally support the popular uprising that sprung up in Iran briefly during his term. The lack of any kind of outside support doomed the uprising from the beginning and ensured that those in Tehran would have an even firmer control of the populace. Then of course the nuclear arms deal only exasperated the situation and emboldened Iran.

As part of our response, we have to consider not only Iran but how their neighbors and allies might construe an overwhelming response that takes Iran back to the Stone Age.

There is a nuclear power with former client states slightly north of Iran who, rightly or wrongly, perceives they need a lot of buffer space to maintain their safety and sovereignty.

It's all interconnected.


ETA: I, personally, would love to see an overwhelming response, and have felt that way since the embassy takeover in 1979.
 

T.Lex

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Agreed. Maybe multiple missle/radar sites as a show of force.

Just saw a new report that the SAM was "truck launched" which probably means it was an S-300 (maybe -400, but I don't think Iran has those yet).

In that case, yeah, you'd have to hit the base where it ostensibly resides... or one close to it. Heck, maybe take out some of their fixed SAM positions, even if those weren't the ones that launched.

BTW, if it was an S-300, that makes it more plausible to me that the drone was in Iranian airspace, given the ranges involved and such. Wouldn't necessarily put money on it, but it makes it more plausible.

Perhaps the drone wasn't flying where we say it was?:tinfoil:

Oh, indeed, I totally allow that the DOD response is BS about where the lines were in relation to the drone. But I'm just saying that - if I understand "false flag" correctly - that the shoot-down of the drone can't be a false flag.

If we actually shot down our own drone, why would Iran be so quick to claim responsibility?

I guess its time to watch Wag the Dog again....
 

HoughMade

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Anyone else think this whole thing is just a false flag operation to help out those poor Military Industrial Complex folks? Seal team 3 plants a few mines and Trump says Iran did it? Wouldn’t surprise me at all.




I get it- never trust what the government says...unless it's the government of Iran.

Let's hear your views on Jet-A and structural steel.
 
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Alpo

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When Bush/Cheney went after Iraq, I assumed that it was at least a 3 dimension chessboard and I, as a civilian with no direct data, couldn't understand the need to invade Iraq, but assumed that the administration had plenty of data and strategic planning to support the move.

Then, no WMD's found. Baathists taken out of power which destroyed the bureaucracy running the country. Military disbanded, creating insurgents, ISIS and greatly increasing Iran's political influence over southwest Asia and the middle East.

The multi-dimensional chess board was really only a game of checkers played with bottlecaps.

I do not believe the Joint Chiefs have any sort of post-invasion scenario for Iran either. Lessons of history and all that.....

We don't need another ground war in Asia.
 

MarkC

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When Bush/Cheney went after Iraq, I assumed that it was at least a 3 dimension chessboard and I, as a civilian with no direct data, couldn't understand the need to invade Iraq, but assumed that the administration had plenty of data and strategic planning to support the move.

Then, no WMD's found. Baathists taken out of power which destroyed the bureaucracy running the country. Military disbanded, creating insurgents, ISIS and greatly increasing Iran's political influence over southwest Asia and the middle East.

The multi-dimensional chess board was really only a game of checkers played with bottlecaps.

I do not believe the Joint Chiefs have any sort of post-invasion scenario for Iran either. Lessons of history and all that.....

We don't need another ground war in Asia.


I think this hits the nail on the head. The devil you know is better than the devil you don't.

Removing Saddam Hussein destabilized the region and removed a reliable counterbalance to Iran.

Removing Muammar Gaddafi as dictator of Libya destabilized the region and help allow anti-western radicals to spread across the country, and, later, the region.

These were terrible people, but is the world truly a better place with them removed from power and executed? What is/was our interest in these areas, aside from removing bad leaders?

Gaddafi had, in a large way, quit openly fostering terrorism and was becoming, somewhat, a member of the international community, after the US caught his attention by bombing his palaces, among other measures. What message did supporting his overthrow send? It doesn't matter if you do what the US wants, they will turn on you anyway? Hard to say.
 
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