Thoughts on cars going all electric?

[KLB]

Yeah but you still have your feet so you could just walk, much better than burning fossil fuels.

Don't forget bicycles!

 

[Ingomike]

Don't forget bicycles!

Those are still privilege means of movement as they can be forced to be licensed just as cars…

 

[Jaybird1980]

 

[BugI02]

I was driving my tank about a half mile from home when I threw a track. Inside the tank it is so warm that I was only wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and tennis shoes. I had to walk home dressed like that with 12 inches of snow on the ground with a sub zero temperature

Dad didn't think you had to wear everything, just have it with you - but he also thought if you had a serious wreck you would be better off already wearing warm clothing than potentially having to put it on while injured

 

[nonobaddog]

Dad didn't think you had to wear everything, just have it with you - but he also thought if you had a serious wreck you would be better off already wearing warm clothing than potentially having to put it on while injured

Then the EMTs will just cut it off anyhow to stop all the bleeding.

 

[BugI02]

I always wear a light coat when I am in my car in the Winter. No reason to wear a heavy coat to walk to 50' or so into a store and back.

I also always keep my heavy coat, hat, heavy gloves and boots in the back. Not just in case something happens to my car, but in case I need to help someone else.

There are a lot of stupid people in the World.

I grew up in the mountains of upstate NY. Many roads were pretty much the only signs of civilization and it could be anywhere from 3 to 30 miles to the next place where you would find people. People still die from exposure in the high Peaks area of the Adirondacks. They spin off the road and no one finds them for days. Even on I-87 there are long stretches with no cell service and the only comms opportunity would be walking to wired emergency phones scattered along that route

 

[JeepHammer]

EV batteries are much bigger and much heavier than gas tanks. Even little EV cars can have batteries that weigh over 500 pounds and big car batteries can get to be way over 1,000 pounds.

You forgot to deduct the weight of the engine, and in a lot of cases the differential, drive shaft(s), etc.

Electric drive motor(s) weigh about the same as a larger commuter vehicle transmission, so that's a wash.

Depends if it's wheel motors or centrally located drive motor.

Inconvenient facts you left out.

The car makers publish a driving range for EV cars which most people think this is how far I will be able to drive between charges.

Essentially true, range depends on driving habits, terrain contour, just like mileage does in gasoline or diesel vehicles.
The harder/faster you drive, or the more hills you pull the shorter the range.

While fossil fuel vehicles consume fuel even when on the brakes,
Regenerative motors produce current and help a little to recharge battery bank.

What they don't tell you is the batteries lose some of that capacity as they age so the range goes down.

So does efficiency of engine, transmission in fossil fuel vehicles as they age.

Another thing they don't tell you is if you charge your batteries to 100% and use them down to some low percent that is the hardest duty cycle on the batteries there is and you will get fewer charge cycles that way.

You misunderstand, or are misinformed about the definition of "Charge Cycle" with the newer battery technology.

Using 25% of the battery capacity is a 25% charge cycle,
If the battery is drained of 100% of it's useable charge, that's a 100% charge cycle.

It takes 4 each 25% cycles,
Or 3 each 33-1/3 cycles to equal a full (100%) charge cycle.
It's the same amount of use 'wear' either way.
This is new to a lot of people, so I understand when this comes up.

These aren't lead/acid batteries that sulfidate and get plate material stripped, electrolyte contaminated by charging/discharging.

Those batteries are 100% protected from being OVER discharged to the point of damage,
The same way they are protected 100% from being overcharged and damaged.

They still produce AT LEAST 4 times (4X) the useable energy a lead/acid battery does, and on average, about 1/5 or less the weight of lead/acid.

Let's not forget the voltage drop a lead/acid has as it's being discharged,
Which much of the current new battery technology doesn't have, useable currents are produced throughout it's rated duty cycle,
Not 25% or less of rated duty cycle like with lead/acid.

And then when the batteries break you get to find out just how very expensive they really are - shocking.

Not really.
Comparable to engine replacement in a fossil fuel internal combustion engine.

Most EV batteries can be repaired, equalivent to repair or rebuild of an engine or transmission.

Of course a full, factory replacement will cost more than a rebuild, just like with fossil fuel hardware.

It is probably in the owners best financial interest to charge the batteries to maybe 80% and only use them down to 20% or 30% to increase the battery life and reduce costs - if you can get by with the reduced range.

And once again, NOPE.

If you intend to STORE the vehicle/battery for LONG periods of time, then 50%-80% charge recommended.
That battery will remain charged for up to a DECADE if it's not being drained by something.

The recommended, and advertised rating on these batteries is still below it's maximum potential to charge.

It's rated discharge is still well below the damage point of these batteries.

The battery management system (BMS) ACTIVELY balances and rates the cell packs in the battery,
There is overcharge & undercharge potential there to compensate for weak cells so they don't get fried.
The technology is simple and crazy effective.

And most new technology batteries give MUCH more useable energy than their rating, usually 10%-25%.
Unlike the 'Rated' fuel milage on fossil fuel vehicles.

Going from 60% down to 40% is even better for the battery life but the useful range would be so disappointing that few people would do that.

Not at all correct anymore, and wasn't with lead/acid which ONLY give rated voltage at 100% charge (or 0% depth of discharge).

It's quite common for current battery technology to be at full rated voltage at 80%-90% depth of discharge.


I had to wrap my mind around that 3-4 years ago when I stated with my LFP batteries...
The voltage starts 'High', but doesn't fall like a brick as the battery discharges.
It is often 80%-90% discharged before voltage drops significantly.

Incidentally this charging stuff about battery life is true for all Lithium battery types today whether they are in your phone or your laptop or your cordless drill.

Um, what chemistry are you talking about?
Sounds like old Ni-Cad...

LFP stays at rated voltage at 80%-90% true (not rated) discharge.
The rating will compensate for leaving the battery undamaged by under/over charge, doesn't represent the true state of charge/discharge.

That's why your phone still works at 2% charge rating...

 

[JeepHammer]

The left wouldn't care if their electricity came from child slaves running on treadmills,

First off, if you actually believe that crap, seek psychological help NOW.
Your ration/reasoning centers in the brain are under attack from something.

Second,
Wasn't it the last president/family that had several clothing/jewelry lines made in countries with sweat shop conditions?
China, Cambodia, etc...

 

[JCSR]

I see...........

 

[tmschuller]

Figured it out.... flame on !

 

[JeepHammer]

You never tell us just where that electricity is going to come from…

That is obvious, but at the risk of feeding yet another troll...

The easiest is Renewables since the 'Fuel' (wind, sun, falling water, etc) are as free as anything gets.

And before you spring another leak,
Yes, it takes infrastructure.
It's just cheaper infrastructure than fossil fuels a lot of the time.

All the extremists selectively forget that fossil fuel power plants, refineries, etc have to be built in the first place,
Then rebuilt on a regular basis.

The big energy companies don't have your selective memory and are investing in wind, solar, etc.
It's a profit/loss thing you never include that they are producing electricity CHEAPER with renewables, or they wouldn't do it, that's not how business works.
You NEVER go into business intending to loose money, and they have actual, educated engineers, number crunchers to guide them.

Secondly, 100% of my day to day operation electricity is 100% produced on site.
I actually have a surplus now,
And the entire system paid for itself in under 10 years,
Produced another 15 years before upgrades.

I'm doing it the most expensive way possible, small scale...
Large scale it's MUCH cheaper.

Third,
Local production cuts costs since the power line infrastructure is much smaller.
Also, not nearly the line losses with with local produced RE.

When fossil fuels are used, it's still more efficient to generate in large scale, as in power plant.
(Instead of some idiot running a generator, or worse yet, a car)

While thermodynamic losses are around 80% at their most efficient in internal combustion engines (20% or less actually driving the vehicle)

A power plant *Can* (but most often does not) have an efficiency of up to 40%.
That's still 60% in just thermal losses,
Then line losses getting it where it will be consumed.
Most US fossil fuel power plants are 20%-30% efficient.

Much like the 20 watt bulb that can't connect the radioactive waste, the contaminated extraction & processing grounds, buildings, infrastructure to produce nuclear fuel pellets, to extraction contamination hot zones,

And let's not forget weapons production, testing contamination, etc.

It's 'Selective' what you choose to include or exclude...
And you always exclude electric vehicles are more efficient per watt, or kW (power produced compared to energy source consumed) than fossil fuel vehicles.

It's simply more efficient, see locomotive with electric traction motors instead of mechanical linkage,
Or any production machine that's electrically powered vs gasoline/diesel engine & mechanical linkage.

Like locomotives, or some on site machinery, gas/diesel is more convenient than power lines, but that doesn't make it more efficient...

And even if there is electricity, the charging takes a long time on top of the waiting time through the line in front of you - you could easily be there for hours - wishing you had your '69 Trans Am back.

Now you can't have it both ways,
Are private business (Tesla & others) wasting money on unused chargers,
Or is there "Hours Long Waits" for chargers?
Pick ONE and stick with it...

Besides, I've never seen a wait at charging stations other when some idiots calling themselves ICE shows up and blocks the chargers with beat up gasoline pickups while trying to start fights...

I've been sitting at this fuel stop since 7:00AM, directly across from 4 chargers,
Seen one vehicle charge in the past 6-1/2 hours.

Didn't have a '69 Trans Am.
Still have my '70, 455 SD car.

Funny, with all the talk about being forced into the junk yard by "Government Mandates" there are still plenty of parts available to keep it running.

I don't care if gasoline gets to $50 a gallon, it will just make that car worth more...

 

[phylodog]

First off, if you actually believe that crap, seek psychological help NOW.
Your ration/reasoning centers in the brain are under attack from something.

Lol, yes clearly I'm the one who needs help.

How can I capture some of that free sunlight and cram it into my house to power my appliances? I'm more than ready to stop paying for electricity.

 

[JeepHammer]

I see the same thing but its even worse with truck drivers, especially newbs their first year driving. If you're in MN and its 10 degrees out and a foot of snow on the ground but you're running from the truck to the store in crocs and a track suit you just don't have or don't want to put on actual winter wear then that's on you. Any long haul truck driver with more than a year's experience packs for 4 seasons all year round. Sure it was crocs weather when you left Miami but you're in the Great Lakes region now and it can go from 70 on Christmas Eve to snowing by Boxing Day. Along with that, winter prep includes plenty of nonperishables, water, truck supplies and never get below half on the fuel gauge. I've been compiling a winter survival truck supplies list for all the years I've driving and my company puts one out every September, usually coinciding with the earliest chain laws (Colorado if I recall begins Sept 15). At best you could be stuck at a truck stop for days until the storm clears but in more dire situations you could be in a ditch with no one seeing you're there and you either have to burrow in or dig out and hike.

My grandfather used to tell me stories of his trucking adventures and back then the interstate infrastructure wasn't as evolved as it is today. They also didn't have cell phones and GPS so the CB radio was their most likely lifeline IF there was anyone in range. My own experiences haven't been as fantastic as his but I've still been in situations where preparation was well served. Once in particular it was a couple of days in a small truck stop which was overcrowded after the highway closure so the diner ran out of food, not having planned for the number of people and length of time before the road reopened. Glad I had plenty of canned goods and water to see me through because even once the roads reopened it took another day for all those trucks that had me blocked in to clear out.

Few things more dangerous than a rookie driver in his first winter,
Where he *Believes* that the 70 mph speed limit can be run on snow & ice with idiot 4 wheeler traffic...

You see the guys with experience spaced WAY apart (plenty of slide room),
Going slow enough to keep traction...

... And here comes "Stupor Man" at 70 mph on ice around you like he is indestructible...

Then in a few miles you have to sit and wait for the wreckers to scrap his junk off the interstate...

There are a LOT more idiots that think "All Wheel Drive" or "4 wheel drive" means they can run 90 mph on snow/ice,
But they don't weigh up to 80,000 pounds, bend in the middle,
And there is just plain too many of them to count every day.

And real men don't wear crocks or flip flops...
Everytime I see flip flops on truck drivers I think,
"When did you get out of prison?"

 

[JeepHammer]

Lol, yes clearly I'm the one who needs help.

How can I capture some of that free sunlight and cram it into my house to power my appliances? I'm more than ready to stop paying for electricity.

I have plenty of excess available for SALE...

Not being a 'Conservative' entitlement/welfare rider dragging their feet, I have to pay for stuff, so you have to pay for stuff.

All panels,


A skid of panels and the rest inverters,


Bring a tractor and buy everything, and I'll cut you a deal on the trailer.

.........

There is one thing you will have to change before you can use any of this stuff since it's all science based...



Your "Buddies" won't let you play in the Trump sandbox anymore...

And they won't be nice about it, you know their slogan/meme/bumper sticker...

 

[phylodog]

You said free. I'm asking where is the free electric power from the sun. It shouldn't be a challenging concept, though it does shoot holes in your fairy tale.

 

[phylodog]

Not being a 'Conservative' entitlement/welfare rider dragging their feet, I have to pay for stuff, so you have to pay for stuff.

You should warn people before you type this kind of thing, I nearly choked to death after shooting my tasty ice water out of my nose lol.

 

[JeepHammer]

You said free. I'm asking where is the free electric power from the sun. It shouldn't be a challenging concept, though it does shoot holes in your fairy tale.

Stand outside during daylight hours and look "UP".
If you have issues, get a 2 year old to help you find the sun in the sky...

I should warn you about staring at the sun, but naw, more fun this way...

At no time, in no way, and specifically foot noted/disclaimer that infrastructure wasn't free...
But then again, I expect nothing less from the forum trolls to NOT understand English,
Completely avoid anything that doesn't fit into their conspiracy theory dogma...

No "Conservative", you don't get free stuff.
No, uncle Don didn't say you could have it,
And NO, "Because you said so" isn't going to get you free stuff..

NO, because you "Believe" electric vehicles are a communist plot, left wing conspiracy, whatever,
Doesn't make it true no matter how many times or how loud you say it...

I know that's a lot to take in when you aren't used to being told NO,
So a nap might be in order?

 

[phylodog]

I swear sometimes I don't understand how you can vote democrat. You type out your petulant little insults but you can't offend anyone here because half the time it's like you're trying to talk **** about your own side. The other half you just fill in with whatever your imagination is feeding you. You don't seem to have an understanding of the word free though so that does tend to pull you back across the fence.


You are a strange, confusing little man.

OMG!!!!! Everything is a conspiracy!!!!!

 

[Ingomike]

That is obvious, but at the risk of feeding yet another troll...

Project much?

 

[Ingomike]

The easiest is Renewables since the 'Fuel' (wind, sun, falling water, etc) are as free as anything gets.

I have read your write up of what it took to get you where you are and that is not attainable for even a small percentage of 330 million people in this country and even less so in the world. Your lefty buddies will not let the people have the land resources you are using to collect “free” energy…