Obviously the Obama administration recognizes that it needs to keep the finger of blame for the current economic collapse squarely pointed at the Bush administration, which is certainly fair in large part (though the Clinton deregulation of the banking industry played a major part in the financial crisis and its enthusiastic promotion of globalization began the massive shift of jobs overseas that has left the nation’s productive capacity hollowed out). But it also seems to recognize that it cannot tell the bitter truth, which is that our national economy will never “bounce back” to where it was in 2007.America, and individual Americans, have been living profligately for years in an unreal economy, propped up by easy credit which inflated the value of real estate to incredible levels, and which led people to spend way beyond their means. Ordinary middle-class working people have been encouraged to buy obscenely oversized homes at 5% down, or even no down payment. They have been lured into buying cars the size of trucks, one for each driving-aged member of the family (in our town, so many high school kids drive to school that the school ran out of parking spaces and the yellow school buses, largely empty on their runs, are referred to by the students as the “shame train,” an embarrassment to be seen riding). They’ve installed individual back-yard swimming pools, unwilling to share the water with their neighbors in community pools. Boring faux ethnic restaurant franchises of all kinds have befouled the landscape, filling up with families too stressed out to cook, and willing to endure over-salted, over-priced and tasteless cuisine and tacky plastic décor night after night.Now this is all crashing down. Property values are in free-fall. Car sales have fallen off a cliff. Joblessness is soaring (At present, it’s approaching an official rate of 8%, but if the methodology used in 1980, before the Reagan administration changed it to hide the depth of that era’s deep recession, were applied, it would be 17% today, or one in six workers).Eventually, the economic slide will hit bottom and begin its slow climb back, as all recessions do, but there will be no return to the days of $500,000 McMansion developments, three-car garages and a new car every two or three years for both parents plus a car for each highschooler. Not only will banks no longer be able to offer such credit to clients. People, having been burned, will not be willing to borrow so much. Company health care benefits, pension programs or 401(k) matching programs that were slashed during this downturn will not be restored when the economy picks up again.Over the last 20 years, America has degenerated into a nation of consumers, with 72 percent of Gross Domestic Product (sic) now being accounted for by consumer spending—most of it going for things that are produced overseas and shipped here.That is not an economic model that is sustainable, and it is a model that has just suffered what is certainly a mortal blow.What we are now seeing is the beginning of an inevitable downward adjustment in American living standards to conform with our actual place in the world. As a nation of consumers, and not producers, with little to offer to the rest of the world except raw materials, food crops, military hardware and bad films (none of which industries employ many people), we are headed to a recovery that will not feel like a recovery at all. Eventually, productive capacity will be restored, as lowered US wages make it again profitable for some things to be made here at home again, but like people in the 1930s looking back at the Roaring 20s of yore, we are going to look back at the last two decades as some kind of dream.It would be better if the new administration would be honest about this, because with honesty, we could have a recovery program that would actually address the real critical issues facing the country—the decline of our educational system, the irrationality of official promotion of home ownership that has led to the proliferation not just of suburbs but of exurbs, the over-reliance on the automobile for transportation, the unprecedented waste of resources, the pillaging of the environment, not to mention the decimation of the retirement system and the creation of a vast medical-industrial complex that is sucking the life-blood out of families and businesses alike.With honesty, we could also confront the other big obstacle to national recovery—the nation’s obsession with militarism and foreign wars. The honest truth is that the US is technically bankrupt and in a state of chronic decline, and yet the nation persists in spending a trillion dollars a year on war and preparations for war, as though America were in mortal danger from foreign enemies.The truth is that we are not threatened by Communism, by drug lords, or by Muslim Jihadists in any serious way. Rather, we have become our own worst enemy.The administration could start by telling us all this straight up, but the problem is, most of us probably don’t want to hear it, which explains why we’re not hearing it. It also explains why we’re about to blow another trillion or so dollars on propping up failing banks, funding pointless highway and bridge construction, and blowing up illiterate peasants in remote places like Afghanistan and Pakistan.Sucks, huh...The Ugly Truth: America's Economy is Not Coming Back | This Can't Be Happening!
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The Ugly Truth: America's Economy is Not Coming Back
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henktermaat
Master
- Jan 3, 2009
- 4,952
- 38
Nothing like a big, rambling, unbreaking paragraph to spread cutting-edge info.
Disposable Heart
Grandmaster
My BRAINS! 
Double space after period!
Hate to say it, but there was very little information or figures that back up their claims in that paragraph, most of it appealed to pathos, not logos. It was alot of pseudofacts glommed together to make a reasonable arguement (something I would write! ) I get alot of these from my good ol'boy friends. They are good people, but tend to get stirred up when things dont go their way, economically or politically. I often delete them, along with the bills that I am supposed to write to my congressperson that have long since expired, but they have just heard of last week. I have to say this though: People need to realize nothing will get done or prevented (in the case of disaster) when everyone complains instead of acts. Too many people are complaining over ammo taxes or things that have not even happened yet, not realizing they should be writing to their congresscritter, instead of looking like a "pro" telling their friends about a bill that has already either been passed or killed LONG ago. Save the complaining to the professionals...
I do agree, America wont bounce back to it's original glory, not after the damage has been done. Not Democrats, Not Republicans, but the greedy in our society. Artificial inflation of our resource base and destruction of American spending power. But we only have ourselves to blame. People who didnt read fine print on loans, causing casutic loans due to inability to pay them. People who do the stock market and play it to their end, not the common good. People who didn't save, but are trying agressively now, damaging the economy's flexibility through lack of consumer spending. People who bought into guns too late into the game, making prices to rise due to a panic situation. It is easy to blame everyone else, but we have only ourselves to point at. We point one finger out, but four point inwards. It's fifty different things, all at once.
America is strong however, hopefully things wont get too bad. Preparation however, is vital and a thing overlooked by a vast majority. However, WANTING the end to come is a HUGELY different animal...
Double space after period!Hate to say it, but there was very little information or figures that back up their claims in that paragraph, most of it appealed to pathos, not logos. It was alot of pseudofacts glommed together to make a reasonable arguement (something I would write!
) I get alot of these from my good ol'boy friends. They are good people, but tend to get stirred up when things dont go their way, economically or politically. I often delete them, along with the bills that I am supposed to write to my congressperson that have long since expired, but they have just heard of last week. I have to say this though: People need to realize nothing will get done or prevented (in the case of disaster) when everyone complains instead of acts. Too many people are complaining over ammo taxes or things that have not even happened yet, not realizing they should be writing to their congresscritter, instead of looking like a "pro" telling their friends about a bill that has already either been passed or killed LONG ago. Save the complaining to the professionals... I do agree, America wont bounce back to it's original glory, not after the damage has been done. Not Democrats, Not Republicans, but the greedy in our society. Artificial inflation of our resource base and destruction of American spending power. But we only have ourselves to blame. People who didnt read fine print on loans, causing casutic loans due to inability to pay them. People who do the stock market and play it to their end, not the common good. People who didn't save, but are trying agressively now, damaging the economy's flexibility through lack of consumer spending. People who bought into guns too late into the game, making prices to rise due to a panic situation. It is easy to blame everyone else, but we have only ourselves to point at. We point one finger out, but four point inwards. It's fifty different things, all at once.
America is strong however, hopefully things wont get too bad. Preparation however, is vital and a thing overlooked by a vast majority. However, WANTING the end to come is a HUGELY different animal...
Dude is long on ranting and short on facts, but he does have a couple of points.
We have been living in a fantasy world of uninterrupted economic growth and consumer spending fueled by a growing mountain of debt. Part of this is an individual problem - families living beyond their means - but part of it is a public or societal problem. Government spending on entitlements - providing every service under the sun to everyone who claims a need - is really just another kind of consumer spending writ large.
Never coming back? I don't know.
It is perfectly possible we could return to a debt-fueled fantasy world for a while. Not that we should: the result would be an ever deeper hole to dig ourselves out of. But as long as someone is dumb enough to lend us the money, and as long as we're dumb enough to pile up debts we can't pay, it is certainly possible for us to get back there.
However this does not mean we are doomed to an everlasting economic catastrophe. There is nothing to prevent us from working hard and living within our means and returning to a modest, sensible growth economy. It won't look like the debt-fueled consumer orgy we have been living in, but that really is a good thing.
I'm reminded of the old surgical adage; "all bleeding stops, eventually." Sooner or later, one way or another, we will learn to live within our means.
We have been living in a fantasy world of uninterrupted economic growth and consumer spending fueled by a growing mountain of debt. Part of this is an individual problem - families living beyond their means - but part of it is a public or societal problem. Government spending on entitlements - providing every service under the sun to everyone who claims a need - is really just another kind of consumer spending writ large.
Never coming back? I don't know.
It is perfectly possible we could return to a debt-fueled fantasy world for a while. Not that we should: the result would be an ever deeper hole to dig ourselves out of. But as long as someone is dumb enough to lend us the money, and as long as we're dumb enough to pile up debts we can't pay, it is certainly possible for us to get back there.
However this does not mean we are doomed to an everlasting economic catastrophe. There is nothing to prevent us from working hard and living within our means and returning to a modest, sensible growth economy. It won't look like the debt-fueled consumer orgy we have been living in, but that really is a good thing.
I'm reminded of the old surgical adage; "all bleeding stops, eventually." Sooner or later, one way or another, we will learn to live within our means.
Evidently, not old enough to remember the last recession. These things go in cycles. Some worse than others.
The damage will not be from a recession, depression, stock market readjustment, business or bank failures. The real catastrophe will be from the Trillion Dollars indebtedness that we are allowing and the Government take over of key financial, manufacturing and distribution companies. America was Not founded to be a socialist nation or a nanny state. Oh my, how have way we allowed "our" great nation to be transposed into a PC blasphemous entity of elitist greed, and our proud history to be rewritten to suit their Progressive needs and desires 
An American Creed
I Do Not Choose to Be a Common Man
It is my right to be uncommon—if I can.
I seek opportunity—not security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me.
I want to take the calculated risk; to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed.
I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia.
I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout. I will never cower before any master nor bend to any threat.
It is my heritage to stand erect, proud and unafraid; to think and act for myself, enjoy the benefit of my creations and to face the world boldly and say, “This I have done.”
By Dean Alfange
An American Creed
I Do Not Choose to Be a Common Man
It is my right to be uncommon—if I can.
I seek opportunity—not security. I do not wish to be a kept citizen, humbled and dulled by having the state look after me.
I want to take the calculated risk; to dream and to build, to fail and to succeed.
I refuse to barter incentive for a dole. I prefer the challenges of life to the guaranteed existence; the thrill of fulfillment to the stale calm of utopia.
I will not trade freedom for beneficence nor my dignity for a handout. I will never cower before any master nor bend to any threat.
It is my heritage to stand erect, proud and unafraid; to think and act for myself, enjoy the benefit of my creations and to face the world boldly and say, “This I have done.”
By Dean Alfange
Kirk Freeman
Grandmaster
tyler, it's too late!
Bah, just get the government out of the way (abolishing capital gains taxes, halving corporate taxes, etc.) and I'll show you economic growth.
You kids don't remember the Carter years? Now that was some misery and we didn't have cable and the Internet!
Bah, just get the government out of the way (abolishing capital gains taxes, halving corporate taxes, etc.) and I'll show you economic growth.
You kids don't remember the Carter years? Now that was some misery and we didn't have cable and the Internet!
tyler, it's too late!
Bah, just get the government out of the way (abolishing capital gains taxes, halving corporate taxes, etc.) and I'll show you economic growth.
You kids don't remember the Carter years? Now that was some misery and we didn't have cable and the Internet!
The Carter Years were Great because we had lots and lots of Peanuts
Not really 
Ask your doctor for a prescription of Zoloft.
For me and mine, we'll not be nibbling on the barrel that you want to place in our collective mouths.
I am so sick of the liberal ideal that U.S. exceptionalism is dead, or that it ever lived at all.
For me and mine, we'll not be nibbling on the barrel that you want to place in our collective mouths.
I am so sick of the liberal ideal that U.S. exceptionalism is dead, or that it ever lived at all.
El Cazador
Expert
While the article has some salient points, they are all "factoids" that are thrown together to create the article. I agree that American exceptionalism isn't dead, because American exceptionalism is in a large part free-market capitalism. And while that might have to operate "underground" for a while, I doubt it can ever be erased as easily as those in charge want to hope it can.
jblomenberg16
Grandmaster
About the only thing that I agree with in the post is that we're too much of a consumer nation. The government didn't get us their entirely on its own, it just may have made it easy given the foriegn trade policies that made it easy for lower priced goods to make it into the country, and with programs and policies to help make the "American Dream" a reality for so many, even those that didn't deserve it. Additionally, much of our industries are producing overpriced goods that aren't attractive on the global market, which means we aren't getting the full benefit of cash inflow.
I will also agree that we're on a downward spiral, but think that it will come back, and in fact be stronger than ever - if the government doesn't get in the way of that.
Whether we like it or not, we're not going to get away from the globalization that we're dealing with now. First, we don't have the natural resources necessary to completely sustain our demand for products, such as pretty much all petroleum based products, and even many made from various metals. Second, many of the companies that are actually doing ok right now are manufacturing products and competing in a global market. We need those companies to succeed to be able to continue to provide some cash inflow, and keep people working.
We're living through a global industrial revolution, much like the one that sparked the thriving economy in the US around the turn of the last century. The difference is that for the most part, the rest of the world is reaping the benefits of this competition: Lower Costs, Better Products, and Larger Profits.
We need to embrace the competition (just as we did domestically in the industrial revolution), and not allow our government to prop us up with loans and stimulus packages that are backed by no real assets. That simply encourages mediocrity. The short term standard of living will likely drop here in the U.S., as the global economy strives to reach an equilibrium point. But once that equilibrium is found, the next round of growth will begin, and we need to be poised to take advantage of it.
To do so, we need to address our national debts, and quickly make our country much more operationally efficient, and improve infrastructure. Ask any business person what they do when their markets go south (which is happening all around us now), and they will tell you that you have to make tough decisions and changes. These changes often mean cutting wasteful programs and jobs, shutting down and consolodating facilities, and investing in training and development programs to get more from less.
Ask anyone recently laid off from work what they're doing to survive, and they'll tell you a similar story. Cut out all unecessary spending and try to survive on only the bare essentials.
What our current government seams to be proposing is a scenario something like a person who is newly unemployeed, who goes out and buys a brand new car, keeps his 500 channel HD cable package, keeps spending hundreds of dollars a month on new clothes and shoes, and continues to dine on premium foods.
If we reduce government waste and improve efficiency, less and less tax dollars will be needed to run the government. Less tax dollars going to the government means more money in the hands of business and consumers to invest in growth and buy goods, and more money being circulated means profits for businesses and investments in new products, capacity, and other good things for the economy. If we get more operationally efficient, both in government, in business, and society, we will be able to ride the swell as the economy comes back. If we don't, we'll be outsiders looking at the rest of the world advancing and leaving us behind.
So, that was a long ramble in response to a long rant, but hopefully my paragraph structure is a bit better.
I will also agree that we're on a downward spiral, but think that it will come back, and in fact be stronger than ever - if the government doesn't get in the way of that.
Whether we like it or not, we're not going to get away from the globalization that we're dealing with now. First, we don't have the natural resources necessary to completely sustain our demand for products, such as pretty much all petroleum based products, and even many made from various metals. Second, many of the companies that are actually doing ok right now are manufacturing products and competing in a global market. We need those companies to succeed to be able to continue to provide some cash inflow, and keep people working.
We're living through a global industrial revolution, much like the one that sparked the thriving economy in the US around the turn of the last century. The difference is that for the most part, the rest of the world is reaping the benefits of this competition: Lower Costs, Better Products, and Larger Profits.
We need to embrace the competition (just as we did domestically in the industrial revolution), and not allow our government to prop us up with loans and stimulus packages that are backed by no real assets. That simply encourages mediocrity. The short term standard of living will likely drop here in the U.S., as the global economy strives to reach an equilibrium point. But once that equilibrium is found, the next round of growth will begin, and we need to be poised to take advantage of it.
To do so, we need to address our national debts, and quickly make our country much more operationally efficient, and improve infrastructure. Ask any business person what they do when their markets go south (which is happening all around us now), and they will tell you that you have to make tough decisions and changes. These changes often mean cutting wasteful programs and jobs, shutting down and consolodating facilities, and investing in training and development programs to get more from less.
Ask anyone recently laid off from work what they're doing to survive, and they'll tell you a similar story. Cut out all unecessary spending and try to survive on only the bare essentials.
What our current government seams to be proposing is a scenario something like a person who is newly unemployeed, who goes out and buys a brand new car, keeps his 500 channel HD cable package, keeps spending hundreds of dollars a month on new clothes and shoes, and continues to dine on premium foods.
If we reduce government waste and improve efficiency, less and less tax dollars will be needed to run the government. Less tax dollars going to the government means more money in the hands of business and consumers to invest in growth and buy goods, and more money being circulated means profits for businesses and investments in new products, capacity, and other good things for the economy. If we get more operationally efficient, both in government, in business, and society, we will be able to ride the swell as the economy comes back. If we don't, we'll be outsiders looking at the rest of the world advancing and leaving us behind.
So, that was a long ramble in response to a long rant, but hopefully my paragraph structure is a bit better.
When those that come after our children write the history of our current time it will not matter as ALL things come to an end. So why worry about it. Learn to go back to the basics:
1) Growning your own food (basics)
2) Raise livestock or know someone who does so you can trade
3) Create a 'community' of people that will band together so you can survive when Uncle Sam finally flat lines
4) Have 'skills' that can be useful no mater what (farming, grown animals, mechanics, plumbing, building, hunting, camping, etc.)
Once Uncle Sam does flat line it's not like we are all just going to die. Look at what happen when the USSR fell apart. The people continued to live. What happen when the Berlin Wall left and the EAST 'lost'. People continued to live. The spirit of the people can never be broken. It is afterall the people that will rise once again and give life to a new 'uncle sam' or some incarnation of it.
Does that mean all 50 states joined as one? No clue
Does that mean that we keep the BOR and USC? no clue
Does that mean that we go back to the way we do things? no clue
All I do know is that overall people are hard little critters to get rid of. Heck Hitler tried it and failed. So did many other dictators after him and all have failed. Why? Cause humans have a way of surviving and moving on. And each soecity learns from the one that came before.
What am I getting at? Stop worrying, Uncle Sam is terminally ill, no doctor in the world can save him. So go and enjoy your life. Spend time with family, teach the little ones to shoot, play Disney Match (card game) with your kids, take the wife out to the movies (just the 2 of you), go take a class on some useful skill, get some along time with you and your girl (your gun) at the range, and just be happy.
Happy knowing that you are going to OUT LIVE old uncle sam.
1) Growning your own food (basics)
2) Raise livestock or know someone who does so you can trade
3) Create a 'community' of people that will band together so you can survive when Uncle Sam finally flat lines
4) Have 'skills' that can be useful no mater what (farming, grown animals, mechanics, plumbing, building, hunting, camping, etc.)
Once Uncle Sam does flat line it's not like we are all just going to die. Look at what happen when the USSR fell apart. The people continued to live. What happen when the Berlin Wall left and the EAST 'lost'. People continued to live. The spirit of the people can never be broken. It is afterall the people that will rise once again and give life to a new 'uncle sam' or some incarnation of it.
Does that mean all 50 states joined as one? No clue
Does that mean that we keep the BOR and USC? no clue
Does that mean that we go back to the way we do things? no clue
All I do know is that overall people are hard little critters to get rid of. Heck Hitler tried it and failed. So did many other dictators after him and all have failed. Why? Cause humans have a way of surviving and moving on. And each soecity learns from the one that came before.
What am I getting at? Stop worrying, Uncle Sam is terminally ill, no doctor in the world can save him. So go and enjoy your life. Spend time with family, teach the little ones to shoot, play Disney Match (card game) with your kids, take the wife out to the movies (just the 2 of you), go take a class on some useful skill, get some along time with you and your girl (your gun) at the range, and just be happy.
Happy knowing that you are going to OUT LIVE old uncle sam.
Rep'd. Wise words spoken here, the force is indeed strong with this one.
It is simple.
1.base your economy on the consumer.
a.then take away manufacturing
b.then take away intellectual property rights
c.then give away your technology
d.then outsource all your service jobs
e.then import everything you need(including food)
f.then over tax everything
g.then raise health care costs
h.then raise the cost of borrowing
I.then lower education standards
j.then have the government regulate every activity
k.then neglect your infrastructure
l.then raise the cost for commodities
m.then lower the value of real assets(homes,cars,ect)
n.then allow millions of illegal people to use the resources you have
o.then allow drugs to freely flow into the county
p.then imprison more people per capa then any country in the world
q.then allow over pricing of basic services(natural gas,electricity ect..)
r.then give the power to make money to a private corporation(well they have had that power a long time).
s.then borrow more and more money from other governments
t.then have less than half the population involved in the political system
u.then have the government serve the corporations(business) not the people
v.then try to fight multiple wars
w.then fight amongst yourselves(politics)
x.then increase welfare benefits to compensate for what was taken away
y.then increase military/police spending
z.then take away some/all basic rights
What do you have after all that? Welcome to the Roman Republic.It has all been done before.They failed,if we keep up current trends we will fail.
1.base your economy on the consumer.
a.then take away manufacturing
b.then take away intellectual property rights
c.then give away your technology
d.then outsource all your service jobs
e.then import everything you need(including food)
f.then over tax everything
g.then raise health care costs
h.then raise the cost of borrowing
I.then lower education standards
j.then have the government regulate every activity
k.then neglect your infrastructure
l.then raise the cost for commodities
m.then lower the value of real assets(homes,cars,ect)
n.then allow millions of illegal people to use the resources you have
o.then allow drugs to freely flow into the county
p.then imprison more people per capa then any country in the world
q.then allow over pricing of basic services(natural gas,electricity ect..)
r.then give the power to make money to a private corporation(well they have had that power a long time).
s.then borrow more and more money from other governments
t.then have less than half the population involved in the political system
u.then have the government serve the corporations(business) not the people
v.then try to fight multiple wars
w.then fight amongst yourselves(politics)
x.then increase welfare benefits to compensate for what was taken away
y.then increase military/police spending
z.then take away some/all basic rights
What do you have after all that? Welcome to the Roman Republic.It has all been done before.They failed,if we keep up current trends we will fail.
Oh, I'm old enough to remember all right - more than one in fact.
I remember the early 70s post Nixon inflationary period, with Ford's "WIN" (whip inflation now) buttons. I remember the Carter years and stagflation. I remember Reagan's tight monetary policy which finally killed inflation but was painfully recessionary at the time (tough medicine, but did the trick). I remember a stock market crash in '87 or '88 (though obviously not clear on the date, I do remember the talk I had with my banker when I was about to over-react to it). I remember the Asian Flu and the Dot Com Bubble.
I also remember all the good times in between, where people were drunk on growth and feeling rich and "experts" were saying the business cycle was a thing of the past and we would never have recessions again.
So I'm not saying it really was uninterrupted growth. I'm just saying everyone was acting like it was.
And to think I did not like Regan when I was a kid cuase he was always interrupting my cartoons and then that "Contra" guy was always on TV as well. *sigh* what a dumb little 10 years old I was not knowinghow much Regan really did for us until now!
We need another regan that is willing to tighten the belt and say the HELL WITH ALL OF YOU. NOBODY IS SPENDING 1 FREAKING PENNY ANYMORE PERIOD!
We need another regan that is willing to tighten the belt and say the HELL WITH ALL OF YOU. NOBODY IS SPENDING 1 FREAKING PENNY ANYMORE PERIOD!
jblomenberg16
Grandmaster
I think that's who will follow our current administration...just not sure who that is yet. May not even be a current well known politician. It may well be a CEO or low profile state govenor with a reputation for turning companies/states around.
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