The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET

[Ingomike]

Right. You guys post everything that even hints at being an EV issue. There actually have been some recalls, but not like what you want. They only replaced the batteries in some models due to an apparent manufacturing defect. They are no where near as dangerous as you make them out to be.

There has to be some balance to the incredibly biased media reporting. Actually surprising the media gatekeepers let as much by as they do…

 

[ajeandy]

I've watched their videos for 6 months or so, when I started shopping for a new car. They always seemed fair in their reviews, and if anything, leaning towards a positive bias towards EVs. I watched this video, and what they have presented seems well-documented. What I can't get past is the dealer's determination that the battery is a total loss, based on what to my lay person's eyes, looks like minor scratches on the battery's protective cover. Which, by the way, voided the warranty.

Seems like a rather crappy car company then. I've never heard of such a thing with the major EV player, Tesla.

 

[ajeandy]

EV proponents are the new vegetarians.


Talk about “false narratives. Many here have posted about vehicles we have had a long time, 10-20 years, put 200,000-500,000 miles on them without major expenses.


The truth is anyone with a grain of common sense knows that battery life is limited, manufacturers will not build batteries for out of production vehicles, and the false narratives come from ideologues…

Well some people may keep vehicles 20 years but that isn't the actual average. According to any study / survey I could find online the average vehicle ownership length is 8 - 8.5 years. Also, based on my anecdotal experience with friends & family members, almost none of them have kept all of their current vehicles longer than 8 years. Nor have any of my co-workers outside of a beater truck just kept for hauling purposes.

I think it's a symptom of the whole I need the newest and latest phone or technology sorta thing. Heck there's a guy that owns a gun shop who has gone through 3 vehicles in less than a year to my knowledge.

Sure, batteries will not last forever, nor will an engine. At their current state, they aren't for everyone, this is something that I've already stated, but the maintenance required to keep a gas car running for 20 years / 200,000 miles isn't nothing / free. There's a trade off with everything...I know my 5 year ownership of my oldest EV maintenance has been 1 set of tires. No oil changes, no filters, etc.

Batteries have been in heavy equipment for years. Electric forklifts have been around for a long time. Lead Acid batteries, so they are different, but it's nothing revolutionary. If you have no interest in owning an electric car then don't buy one. No one is going to force you to buy one.

I see a shocking amount of Teslas on the south side of Indianapolis despite the demographic here being more conservative as opposed to the North side / downtown.

 

[JCSR]

Even in Japan EV's just aren't catching on.

“In Japan, hybrids are popular because they’re affordable and reliable, since they don’t rely on the existence of strong charging infrastructure,” said Bloomberg Intelligence senior auto analyst Tatsuo Yoshida.

In the Birthplace of Toyota’s Prius, Hybrids Now Reign Supreme

The majority of passenger cars purchased in Japan will be gas-electric for the first time next year.

www.bloomberg.com

 

[oze]

Seems like a rather crappy car company then. I've never heard of such a thing with the major EV player, Tesla.

As mentioned in the video, due diligence wrt battery warranty, what would cause it to be voided, replacement cost, etc.

A bit off-topic, but I was watching a video of an ICE Mustang GT go head-to-head against a dual battery "Mustang" EV at a drag strip. The EV smoked the ICE out of the hole. Every time. But, after a couple of seconds, the ICE caught and passed the EV like it was standing still. Every time. Which puzzled me, until I read that Ford limits the duration that it will allow its EVs to operate at wide open throttle, because too much operation at WOT degrades the battery faster, causing it to drop below the guaranteed minimum charge potential before the end of warranty.

 

[Ingomike]

No one is going to force you to buy one.

If one needs a vehicle for travel this is just flat out not true. If it was I would not care. I believe you sincerely believe this, but it just is not true. The government is taking options away from ICE consumers for their political goals.

This could have been stopped decades ago if manufacturers had told California to suck eggs, we are not building California spec cars. Told the feds to shove their CAFE standards.

They are forcing with their end arounds to take options away and force buyers to EV.

 

[bwframe]

https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/tesla-rival-faces-growing-bankruptcy-risk

 

[JCSR]

https://www.thestreet.com/electric-vehicles/tesla-rival-faces-growing-bankruptcy-risk

Yep. It also tells me there is a good chance the driver is a liberal moron

"Driving a Tesla does not send the message that you care about global warming or the environment. It tells people you're a special kind of wealthy and trendy, just as many luxury cars always have."

 

[Kdf101]

Or maybe just maintain the car, drive carefully and attentively to not get flats. No high performance car has a spare tire. Heck, the tire on a Corvette would fill your dads back in the day Caddy trunk They are so big…

Maintaining a car and not getting a flat are two different things.

 

[Ingomike]

Maintaining a car and not getting a flat are two different things.

I should have added attentive driving, staying alert at the wheel can avoid these things. Cannot tell how many times I have avoided an object on the road only to see the guy on the phone behind me hit it square and the look of shock when he does.

Wait I did put attentive driving…

 

[ajeandy]

Even in Japan EV's just aren't catching on.

“In Japan, hybrids are popular because they’re affordable and reliable, since they don’t rely on the existence of strong charging infrastructure,” said Bloomberg Intelligence senior auto analyst Tatsuo Yoshida.

In the Birthplace of Toyota’s Prius, Hybrids Now Reign Supreme

The majority of passenger cars purchased in Japan will be gas-electric for the first time next year.

www.bloomberg.com

View attachment 319747

I'm not sure about in Japan, but Toyota really isn't offering anything compelling but Hybrids in the US. You can't expect to sell more of something if it's not compelling enough to buy. As I've said several times in this thread, EVs still have a ways to go and definitely are not available to the masses as far as affordability goes. So long as you can buy a brand new Honda Civic for less than a brand new electric car it's going to take time until those are at parity in the eyes of the consumer with a budget in mind.

 

[Kdf101]

I should have added attentive driving, staying alert at the wheel can avoid these things. Cannot tell how many times I have avoided an object on the road only to see the guy on the phone behind me hit it square and the look of shock when he does.

Wait I did put attentive driving…

Not in your original post. Tried to put smiley faces in but failed……

 

[ajeandy]

If one needs a vehicle for travel this is just flat out not true. If it was I would not care. I believe you sincerely believe this, but it just is not true. The government is taking options away from ICE consumers for their political goals.

This could have been stopped decades ago if manufacturers had told California to suck eggs, we are not building California spec cars. Told the feds to shove their CAFE standards.

They are forcing with their end arounds to take options away and force buyers to EV.

They are forcing with their end arounds to take options away and force buyers to EV.

Woof.

The government is not forcing you to buy anything. The government doesn't dictate what manufactures decide to build. They have incentivized manufacturers to build EVs and source their components within the USA. That is why the EV tax credit is being cut next year unless the vehicles are made in the USA and most of their components are sourced from the USA. They are trying to incentivize manufacturers to buy & build locally as opposed to sourcing parts from China.

What options are being taken away from you that you would have actually considered purchasing? Didn't Ford just introduce the Bronco recently despite also expanding their EV presence? Just one example. What options are being taken away from you though and how are you being penalized. Please list them so we can discuss that.

 

[ajeandy]

Yep. It also tells me there is a good chance the driver is a liberal moron

"Driving a Tesla does not send the message that you care about global warming or the environment. It tells people you're a special kind of wealthy and trendy, just as many luxury cars always have."

Nikola is not a Tesla Rival. Their CEO just got sentenced to 4 years in prison for FRAUD. They basically lied about everything to investors. Their vehicles were mostly Hydrogen / battery hybrid based and it's not viable. They lied about all of it and eventually got caught after pumping and dumping their stock. In no way shape or form is Nikola remotely close to a Tesla rival.

Tesla has sold well over 2 million vehicles Nikola has sold less than 500....

 

[indyblue]

The government is not forcing you to buy anything. The government doesn't dictate what manufactures decide to build. They have incentivized manufacturers to build EVs and source their components within the USA.

It's the same thing. By forcing mfgrs to be held to impossible CAFE standards is de-facto coercion.

Coercion
Coercion involves compelling a party to act in an involuntary manner by the use of threats, including threats to use force against that party. It involves a set of forceful actions which violate the free will of an individual in order to induce a desired response.

You think the auto mfgrs would be doing this if not for the (CAFE) stick the .gov is using against them?

And by Kalifornia & a half dozen states banning ICE vehicles by some arbitrary date isn't "forcing"?

 

[ajeandy]

It's the same thing. By forcing mfgrs to be held to impossible CAFE standards is de-facto coercion.

You think the auto mfgrs would be doing this if not for the (CAFE) stick the .gov is using against them?

And by Kalifornia & a half dozen states banning ICE vehicles by some arbitrary date isn't "forcing"?

Auto manufacturers are not going to do something unless it's in their best interest or unless they think they can profit.

Top 5 selling vehicles in the USA as of October 2023:

1) Ford F Series - ~573k sold
2) Chevy Silverado - ~403k sold
3) Ram Pickup - ~332k sold
4) Toyota Rav 4 - ~302k sold
5) Tesla Model Y - ~284k sold

How is it that Tesla has sold more model Y than Civics, Accords, Corollas, Jeep, Camry, CRV, etc...if manufacturers are making EVs it's because they are clearly being desired. Tesla would not have sold that many vehicles if people did not want them.

One company is innovating while others are doing the same thing they have done for the past 100 years. That doesn't usually end well for the companies that choose not to innovate.

Look at Sig guns vs oh idk glock. Glock is making the same stuff they've make for the past 40 years. No innovation. They are losing marketshare.

At the end of the day the consumer will decide what they want. There are still flip phones on the market today despite "smart phones" being the new normal. I imagine the same fate will fall the internal combustion vehicle it will just take a lot longer due to slower technology development at scale, power grid necessities, and pushback from the oil industry aka Saudi Arabia / Middle East.

Let us know when they start discontinuing popular vehicles like the Civic, Camry, Accord, Mustang, Camera, Corvette, etc then we'll have some evidence that what is being speculated on here actually has any merit.

 

[JCSR]

You could drive a Honda Civic for 20 years cheaper than owning a Tesla 5 years.

 

[firecadet613]

You could drive a Honda Civic for 20 years cheaper than owning a Tesla 5 years.

Does that include the $7,500 coercion, I mean rebate, from the government?

*add purple as necessary*

 

[MCgrease08]

The government is not forcing you to buy anything. The government doesn't dictate what manufactures decide to build.

For someone who has owned so many EVs and is pretty active in this thread, you seem to have missed some major news on the subject, including in the passenger car and commercial vehicle space.

If you aren't aware of the wave of government mandates for EVs, you may want to spend some time looking into it before claiming there are no mandates.

California moves to accelerate to 100% new zero-emission vehicle sales by 2035 | California Air Resources Board

SACRAMENTO – The California Air Resources Board today approved the trailblazing Advanced Clean Cars II rule that sets California on a path to rapidly growing the zero-emission car, pickup truck and SUV market and deliver cleaner air and massive reductions in climate-warming pollution.

ww2.arb.ca.gov

Understanding California’s Advanced Clean Truck Regulation - RMI

What is ACT, who must comply, and what is required for compliance?

rmi.org

Advanced Clean Fleets Regulation Summary | California Air Resources Board

Accelerating Zero-Emission Truck Markets The Advanced Clean Fleets (ACF) regulation is part of California Air Resources Board’s (CARB or Board) overall approach to accelerate a large-scale reduction in tailpipe emissions focusing on zero-emissions medium- and heavy-duty vehicles. This regulation...

ww2.arb.ca.gov

Federal government EV mandates destined to fail: op-ed

In Canada, only 6.5 per cent of the 1.5 million new vehicles sold in 2022 were electric.

www.fraserinstitute.org

EPA’s 67.5% Electric Vehicle Mandate: Too Far, Too Fast

Members of Congress are encouraged to support efforts to counter EPA’s overly aggressive EV mandates and attempts to effectively ban the sale of gas-powered cars.

www.nada.org

 

[oze]

Woof.

The government is not forcing you to buy anything. The government doesn't dictate what manufactures decide to build. They have incentivized manufacturers to build EVs and source their components within the USA. That is why the EV tax credit is being cut next year unless the vehicles are made in the USA and most of their components are sourced from the USA. They are trying to incentivize manufacturers to buy & build locally as opposed to sourcing parts from China.

What options are being taken away from you that you would have actually considered purchasing? Didn't Ford just introduce the Bronco recently despite also expanding their EV presence? Just one example. What options are being taken away from you though and how are you being penalized. Please list them so we can discuss that.

The problem, as I see it, is the government propping up EV adoption by subsidizing them with the $7500 tax credit. That just rocks the capitalist in me. It also is a tacit admission that, on their own merits and beyond the early adopters, EVs cannot compete with ICE cars. Maybe some day, but not yet. Imo.