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The Open Carry Argument
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It's one of those freedoms that would be easy to lose, because there's not much of an argument for it. I know we have this entire thread... but that's mostly an argument between gun-owners.
When it comes to justifying OC to the public/government/companies/etc... we really can't outside of "we already have it, don't take it away." Our other reasons are personal and in-community, and have little to no legal backing.
Enough companies step up and "ban" OC, it'll eventually disappear, and possibly just be forgotten by states when carry law changes come around. Easy thing to phase out.
When it comes to justifying OC to the public/government/companies/etc... we really can't outside of "we already have it, don't take it away." Our other reasons are personal and in-community, and have little to no legal backing.
Enough companies step up and "ban" OC, it'll eventually disappear, and possibly just be forgotten by states when carry law changes come around. Easy thing to phase out.
It’s society playing its will out. The non-gun owning masses who are passive and generally unaware of most gun rights issues, don’t have anything to say about it until it becomes mainstream knowledge.
Now they wake up, “What? People are walking into restaurants and grocery stores and coffee shops with guns out in the open? Why? What are you afraid of? There should be a law against that.”
And I get that part of the open carry movement, to the extent that it is a movement, is to normalize open carry. Well. That movement ran into a societal buzz saw. We haven’t changed people’s worldviews about guns and especially open carry, enough to sway a lot of people to change their instinct when they hear of instances of open carry. Not before the spat of mass shootings are exploited by media to get more gun control enacted.
G is right in that we don’t have a compelling argument for the masses, why ordinary citizens can and should carry firearms openly in public. Normalizing firearms can’t really happen just by a relative few people going out in public openly carrying firearms. It takes a convincing argument, especially a good counter to “He has a gun!”
“It’s my right” seemed to be working fine when the apathetic cattle were grazing, uninterested. Then came Sandy Hook, and then case after case of highly publicized mass shootings. Now people are wondering why the hell we allow open carry. I don’t have an answer other than, because it’s my right.
That’s not enough to counter significant numbers of people who disagree. The way we win this is to convince enough of those people to agree with us, even if they don’t personally open carry themselves. So what’s the argument for that?
Now they wake up, “What? People are walking into restaurants and grocery stores and coffee shops with guns out in the open? Why? What are you afraid of? There should be a law against that.”
And I get that part of the open carry movement, to the extent that it is a movement, is to normalize open carry. Well. That movement ran into a societal buzz saw. We haven’t changed people’s worldviews about guns and especially open carry, enough to sway a lot of people to change their instinct when they hear of instances of open carry. Not before the spat of mass shootings are exploited by media to get more gun control enacted.
G is right in that we don’t have a compelling argument for the masses, why ordinary citizens can and should carry firearms openly in public. Normalizing firearms can’t really happen just by a relative few people going out in public openly carrying firearms. It takes a convincing argument, especially a good counter to “He has a gun!”
“It’s my right” seemed to be working fine when the apathetic cattle were grazing, uninterested. Then came Sandy Hook, and then case after case of highly publicized mass shootings. Now people are wondering why the hell we allow open carry. I don’t have an answer other than, because it’s my right.
That’s not enough to counter significant numbers of people who disagree. The way we win this is to convince enough of those people to agree with us, even if they don’t personally open carry themselves. So what’s the argument for that?
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For one I believe that I have done more to normalize gun ownership in general than I could have had I CC'd.
Years ago I had several run ins with local police. I did not back down and explained the law to the people trained to deal with criminals.
This area has a very good understanding between carriers and the police now because the word has been passed around that we are not criminals.
and it is comfortable and easier to draw.
Years ago I had several run ins with local police. I did not back down and explained the law to the people trained to deal with criminals.
This area has a very good understanding between carriers and the police now because the word has been passed around that we are not criminals.
and it is comfortable and easier to draw.
I don't really have anything against open carry in general. I don't think it's the best choice tactically, but I understand you're trying to make a point and I don't think it should be restricted in any way.
Often times though, I feel like people do it without the requisite level of care. It seems to me that 80% of the times when I see someone open carrying, they have a cheap, open top holster. Fobus and cheap nylon, or even just most plastic paddle and belt holsters. They are paying no attention to their surroundings or to their pistol, and look like they couldn't win a grappling match with a paraplegic. Nearly every time I see these people I think: "If I needed a pistol I could just walk up and take his". I feel like it should at least look like more of a challenge to take it away from you.
Why aren't quality retention holsters and serious work on retention skills a focal area among open carry advocates?
If you're an open carry advocate, do you wear a retention holster? Do you pressure test your gear in live retention drills? Have you ever broken a holster doing it? Do you ever receive training in either grappling or pistol retention, or preferably both? How often do you test those skills?
Just a few questions from a curious observer.
Often times though, I feel like people do it without the requisite level of care. It seems to me that 80% of the times when I see someone open carrying, they have a cheap, open top holster. Fobus and cheap nylon, or even just most plastic paddle and belt holsters. They are paying no attention to their surroundings or to their pistol, and look like they couldn't win a grappling match with a paraplegic. Nearly every time I see these people I think: "If I needed a pistol I could just walk up and take his". I feel like it should at least look like more of a challenge to take it away from you.
Why aren't quality retention holsters and serious work on retention skills a focal area among open carry advocates?
If you're an open carry advocate, do you wear a retention holster? Do you pressure test your gear in live retention drills? Have you ever broken a holster doing it? Do you ever receive training in either grappling or pistol retention, or preferably both? How often do you test those skills?
Just a few questions from a curious observer.
Over the past month or so I have been OCing when I make a stop after work. IWB holster (Patriot Concealment Systems) with my G26 with 2 round extension. I don’t think anyone has noticed…
Are you saying no one freaked out, no one shot him (I'm assuming it was a guy and he identifies as one and they place he was shopping was getting robbed, so he was targeted first), no one stole his personal protection device from his hip, etc, etc, etc?!
Crazy huh
eldirector
Grandmaster
Occurred to me as well. This IS the same group that also mentioned "short barrel rifle ammo", as if that is a thing.
I just don't like the staunchly pro or anti CC vs. OC, no matter how one carries. As this corporate OC ban stuff grows or further organizes itself, it seems like OC vs. CC stuff could be used to try to divide and conquer the gun owning community.
I can kinda hear it down the road... Anti-gunners portraying it like "see, even most of the CC people think OCers are reckless cowboy nutbags."
I've carried both, but in the big picture, it's been 97% CC and 3% OC.
I can kinda hear it down the road... Anti-gunners portraying it like "see, even most of the CC people think OCers are reckless cowboy nutbags."
I've carried both, but in the big picture, it's been 97% CC and 3% OC.
Are you asking my for my opinion or the general public's?
I have at least two long coats that would make it easy to CC an AR-15...
Someone carrying a long gun on their back wouldn't bother me.
Nor I, but I would look twice.
I was taken aback as a little kid when I saw a couple of early teens walking down my street with shotguns. I was soon made to understand that it was duck season (wabbit season) and I lived a block from the salt marsh where they were hunting.
To the uninitiate it could be frightening.
Ignorance causes prejudice.
I was taken aback as a little kid when I saw a couple of early teens walking down my street with shotguns. I was soon made to understand that it was duck season (wabbit season) and I lived a block from the salt marsh where they were hunting.
To the uninitiate it could be frightening.
Ignorance causes prejudice.
Do you have blinders on? After multiple cases of people walking into public places with long guns and opening fire, you wonder why open carrying a long gun would be a problem with the public? Get real people, that behavior is only asking for trouble in the present environment.
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