The .38 Super

[BehindBlueI's]

I don't think I've ever seen one outside of competition, and even during the Great Ammo Scare of 2013 it seems like it sat on the shelves. Why? Is it like the .41 magnum, a great caliber that just never caught on, or is there some real reason not to use it? Accuracy? Termainal ballistics? Lack of platforms chambered in it?

Just curious.

 

[T755]

its becoming more and more popular. It was quite popular in Mexico and latter with law enforcement in the 30's. The problem was untill people started making custom barrels, Colt headspaced the round wrong which caused less than steller accuracy. We used it quite a bit in the late 80's and into the 90's in IPSC. Its a great carry round with several documented shootings. One that was close to the old 357 duty round was 9x23 in some of the hotter offerings. it died on the vine like the tsw cartridges.

 

[rockhopper46038]

I'm shooting a Witness Elite chambered in .38 Super, and think it's a fine cartridge. I keep trying to talk myself out of carrying it loaded with the 9x23mm mentioned.

 

[buford t justice]

IMHO ,it's performance isn't that much different than modern loadings of 9mm parabelum.

 

[chezuki]

I don't think I've ever seen one outside of competition, and even during the Great Ammo Scare of 2013 it seems like it sat on the shelves. Why? Is it like the .41 magnum, a great caliber that just never caught on, or is there some real reason not to use it? Accuracy? Termainal ballistics? Lack of platforms chambered in it?

Just curious.

Wanna pick one up to try it out? I'm sure your department would let you carry it if you ask nice.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...308607-sti-grandmaster-38-super-open-gun.html

I have a feeling there my be a couple thousand brand new Starline brass for sale for it soon as well.

.38 Super is still quite a bit higher velocity than even 9mm+p.

 

[loony1]

I will have an El Presidente one day.....ask TAT 7 about my desire....


If I'm not mistaken they were designed to shoot through car doors and other objects that .45acp could not. Either way it is a big caliber of choice south of the border due to their cartridge laws.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Wanna pick one up to try it out? I'm sure your department would let you carry it if you ask nice.

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...308607-sti-grandmaster-38-super-open-gun.html

I have a feeling there my be a couple thousand brand new Starline brass for sale for it soon as well.

.38 Super is still quite a bit higher velocity than even 9mm+p.

Thanks, but outside my price range. That does sort of backup what I said, though. It seems like the vast majority of time you see them its a competition gun. Like T755 said you saw them a lot in IPSC.

 

[indiucky]

If I'm not mistaken they were designed to shoot through car doors and other objects that .45acp could not. Either way it is a big caliber of choice south of the border due to their cartridge laws.

Yes sir. They became quite popular when when one of the criminals from the 30's (the story is told on "Tales of The Gun, Gangster Guns", it's on youtube) is that he said to the newspaper reporter, "If you all want to have any success you need to get your officers some of Colt's Super .38's, They'll crack an engine block." The 38/44 (38 plus p plus, a 38 on a 44 frame to handle the additional oomph) and then the .357 magnum were both designed for this reason. The .357 magnum (obviously) killed the 38/44 but all three cartridges were designed to stop cars at the time. Serial number 3 of the Smith and Wesson .357 Magnum (Later the model 27) was presented to J. Edgar Hoover in a 3 inch barrel form. Along with a really nice sun dress and bonnet.

 

[Sgtusmc]

It's the choice of the cartel cowboys to bling out.

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_1_5/12...ed_Mexican_style_38_Super_1911andapos_s_.html

 

[SERparacord]

I don't think I've ever seen one outside of competition, and even during the Great Ammo Scare of 2013 it seems like it sat on the shelves. Why? Is it like the .41 magnum, a great caliber that just never caught on, or is there some real reason not to use it? Accuracy? Termainal ballistics? Lack of platforms chambered in it?

Just curious.

It just got nosed out by the 9mm. Fine round, but hard to find in the LGS these days.

 

[mssmith44]

It is a fine round. I was at an IDPA match where 4 of us on one squad had 38 supers. Since then I have seen very few. Kimber makes one. One of the others on the squad had a LLama. Mine is a para 40 with a 38 super barrel in it.
The 38 super is a long cartridge for an auto so it needs the fullsize frame of a 1911.
Brass is harder to find than the other common calibers.
9mm is really plentiful and the rules of the games now are written so that 38 super does not have an advantage over 9 except in USPSA open class.
It is more accurate and easier to load than 9mm.

 

[HoughMade]

I'm sure article, even books, have been written on why the .38 Super isn't more popular in the U.S., but I guess I would blame the .45 ACP, mostly. Big bullet, known quantity, available.

Also, when it was made to headspace on the semi-rim, it wasn't that accurate. Headspaced on the case mouth, it's not bad at all.

In Mexico, they had (maybe they still do) a law that civilians could not own calibers used by the military. This excluded .45ACP and the 9mm Para.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It is a fine round. I was at an IDPA match where 4 of us on one squad had 38 supers.

So do you actually carry it, or is strictly a competition gun? Why so popular for competition but so unpopular for carry?

 

[Rob377]

So do you actually carry it, or is strictly a competition gun? Why so popular for competition but so unpopular for carry?

It requires a fairly large frame firearm. The OAL of a 38 super needs something with a 1911/2011 grip size. For any number of reasons, the majority of CCW buyers prefer smaller frames. For the ones that don't mind a larger frame, the history, reputation, and common ammo availability of the 45 ACP generally wins. (which is why Glock developed the 45 GAP - 45 ACP ballistics without the large frame requirement. The large frame/OAL issue is also one of the alleged reasons the FBI ditched the 10mm in favor of the 40)

The 38Super (and 38 Supercomp) are popular in competition because large frame 1911 based guns are the dominant design. In USPSA/IPSC Open division, the 38Super has a lot of advantages - it makes major power factor easily with a wide range of powders, higher capacity in 170mm mags over 40/10mm, greater case capacity over 9mm loaded to major PF allows it to produce more gas to work the compensator, and longer OAL tends to work more reliably in 19/2011 guns than factory length 9mm or 40.

The semi-rimmed case 38 Super is reputed to have some issues in double stack mags, which turns some people off. The rimless 38 SuperComp is a response to that.

 

[mssmith44]

Another issue with the carrying of 38 super is the availability of factory ammunition that is suitable for defense use.
Winchester has one loading. Corbon has two, which are really good. Federal has one.
These are all pretty difficult to come by.
The Corbons are loaded to the limit. 115 grain at 1425fps 125 at 1325fps
The others are pretty weak.

 

[mssmith44]

Another cartridge that has that kind of power in a smaller pistol is the 357 Sig.
How popular is it. It is a real noise maker.
It is in use by the Air Marshalls.
The bottle neck case is more difficult to reload but feeds very well.