Taqueria robber shot dead by patron. video /bad shoot?

[Flingarrows]

5 too many in my estimation

 

[kickbacked]

In Indiana anyway, my use of deadly force (to protect myself or a 3rd party) is judged the by the same law as non-LE. "ROE"? IC 35-41-3-2 and IC 35-41-3-3. Those are what dictate YOUR and MY use of deadly force and for me to use force to make an arrest. You study those 2 laws and you will be as trained in this area as I am. Human physiological processes during stress are not any different. Training can mitigate some of the effects but not all.

Do you mean prosecutor? They can argue pretty much ANYTHING they wish. It's a crappy argument.

So you think that in the exact same scenario you or other leo's with years of experience have no more advantage than someone who's never had any violent altercation in their life?

Crappy arguments do win occasionally.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Shouldnt it be though? As a police officer you're (at least you're supposed to) be trained in those scenarios, you have your own ROE. Range time, special training, experience in those scenarios, etc that holds you to a higher ground than a regular civilian. A civilian with zero military or leo background can only hope they do the right thing.

As stated, the "ROE" is the same except in one, mostly hypothetical, instance of using deadly force to affect an arrest. With modern case law I can't think of a realistic scenario where you can legally shoot to affect an arrest but can't shoot to protect a 3rd party or stop a forcible felony.

Now, you are partially right in that you are judged by a reasonable person standard and that hypothetical person knows what you know or reasonably should have known. Someone trained and experienced will be judged against *that* reasonable person. Now, that does not give people a free for all. Is it reasonable to burn him down the first time, I think that's largely agreed upon as a yes. Is it resonable to put more rounds on him as he's down but armed? Fuzzier, but maybe depending on context. Is it reasonable to disarm him then put one in his head? I don't think so.

 

[Shadow01]

Would anyone here convict if on the jury?
Criminals need to learn that their way of life isn't worth the risk.

Any “self defense“ shoot would be an automatic not guilty vote from me if I was on any jury. You commit an act of aggression against a citizen minding their own business and you get shot or killed, I would not be a juror that you want to protect the instigator.

 

[2tonic]

We all seem to be assuming that every round fired struck its target.

The last round may have been an intentional miss to see if there was any further reaction from the perp. If the shooter had kicked him, to see if he was still responsive, the Twitter-atti would lose their minds over the cruelty of it all.

Perp may have been reaching for his weapon, or a secondary weapon still hidden on his person...either one deserves additional rounds.

Really, the only guy that knows for sure is the shooter, and he seems to have temporarily removed himself from the debriefing que.

 

[Expat]

I’m okay with the shooting. He fired until he was satisfied the threat was completely over.

 

[yepthatsme]

I am a little surprised at the negative critiquing of the shooting. This is almost the same scenario that took place in the Greenwood Mall with the exception that this robber was not an active shooter. He could have very easily been an active shooter though, his actions were extremely erratic and unpredictable. The responder was completely at a disadvantage in this situation and he waited until he had a chance to react. I'm sure the adrenaline was pumping when he had a chance to react.

Eli Dicken continued shooting until he was completely satisfied the Greenwood Mall shooter was dead and no longer a threat. If this robber started shooting people, the responder would have been hailed as a hero for stopping the threat and saving lives. The only difference, he was able to stop the robber before the robber was able to shoot anyone. (And yes, I know he had a fake gun, but no one knew the gun was fake until after the shooting took place.) Just my .

 

[Mgderf]

I think he may have more of a problem with the fact that he left the scene before authorities arrived.
The extra shots MIGHT be able to be explained away.
Leaving the scene and not contacting authorities will be more of an issue and harder to dismiss.

 

[tv1217]

The tendency of businesses to use potato security cameras might help him in this case. He might be able to get away with saying the guy twitched or something on that last shot.

 

[bobzilla]

And the tone here would be completely different. Something something executioner something something.

Not from me. Fafo is real. One less piece of **** that we as a society have to deal with

 

[cg21]

I am a little surprised at the negative critiquing of the shooting. This is almost the same scenario that took place in the Greenwood Mall with the exception that this robber was not an active shooter. He could have very easily been an active shooter though, his actions were extremely erratic and unpredictable. The responder was completely at a disadvantage in this situation and he waited until he had a chance to react. I'm sure the adrenaline was pumping when he had a chance to react.

Eli Dicken continued shooting until he was completely satisfied the Greenwood Mall shooter was dead and no longer a threat. If this robber started shooting people, the responder would have been hailed as a hero for stopping the threat and saving lives. The only difference, he was able to stop the robber before the robber was able to shoot anyone. (And yes, I know he had a fake gun, but no one knew the gun was fake until after the shooting took place.) Just my .

Seems people like things better when they don’t actually SEE what happens maybe feelings get involved when you visually see them. I would imagine adrenaline and fear would play a HUGE role in a situation like this and NOONE can say what they would do in this situation until they are there. Similar to “non-hunters” assuming hunting is super easy because they can hit a piece of paper, or even worse because they see it on TV and it looks easy.

 

[jwamplerusa]

Don't remember this being posted up thread. ASP has posted their analysis, which disclosed a couple of things I had not known.



Apparently the audio and video were not synced in the earlier released videos.

Second, and to me more important, EVERYONE left and did not immediately call law enforcement. With the bars on the windows and that behavior I will speculate that this occurred in a very crime ridden area where many either had bad experiences with law enforcement or were wanted, or were prior felons. To me none of the preceding should impact the self-defense aspect, but I can understand why no one stuck around.

I liked the fact that John offered to connect the defender with an attorney. John stated the Prosecutor has apparently stated that he wasn't charging, though with the publicity I am sure that could change. Being Texas however; what are the chances of a Grand Jury actually issuing charges?

 

[diver dan]

I talked to a defense attorney a while ago about what things have to be done to claim self defense in indiana and he said its not a series of events , that have to happen , because every situation is different circumstances , each shooting is judged individually on circumstances . That what I was told.And every jurisdiction has a different view especially when your in a mixed race town/city. Just my take.

 

[Alamo]

He gave all the victims’ money back. Hero move.

Houston keeps electing leftwing prosecutors who want to emulate Chicago with bail and other “justice reform” maneuvers. It appears the crime rates are reacting proportionately. However despite who they elect, it seems that when Houstonians get to the jury box they are not very friendly to robbers and thieves and so forth who get shot plying their trades.

so if this were New York the good guy would be toast, but being in Texas, he’s got a decent chance of walking away. And yeah I think he’s a good guy, like what’s his name in the video said, “the perpetrator put the quarter in the jukebox.”

 

[Sigblitz]

I stand by hero to zero. The robber doesn't deserve to be on this rock but the last shot by the good guy with a gun definitely wasn't a self defense shooting. The emotions are there but you have to keep your head in it and not let emotions guide your actions. Deal with what's in front of you in a proper way and don't add any more to the pile. You can be mad and still make good decisions. In the mix is not the time to express how you feel and you know this. You can vent later and you should deal with it later to stay level.

 

[Lpherr]

I stand by hero to zero. The robber doesn't deserve to be on this rock but the last shot by the good guy with a gun definitely wasn't a self defense shooting. The emotions are there but you have to keep your head in it and not let emotions guide your actions. Deal with what's in front of you in a proper way and don't add any more to the pile. You can be mad and still make good decisions. In the mix is not the time to express how you feel and you know this. You can vent later and you should deal with it later to stay level.

It's easy to say what should happen, or what you would do, but until you are put in the exact scenario, you can't say for certain.

 

[Sigblitz]

Your character will be judged in any shtf situation, by your friends, family, wife, girlfriend, colleagues, and their level of trust in you depends on the decisions you make.

 

[Sigblitz]

It's easy to say what should happen, or what you would do, but until you are put in the exact scenario, you can't say for certain.

Yes, you can, if you decide to be on that next level before something happens.

 

[Lpherr]

Your character will be judged in any shtf situation, by your friends, family, wife, girlfriend, colleagues, and their level of trust in you depends on the decisions you make.

Your character, is constantly being judged by those that surround you.

 

[Lpherr]

Yes, you can, if you decide to be on that next level before something happens.

I wish I could say I have the same confidence as you.
Reality has a way of punching you in the face. Believing you can control an adrenaline dump, fear, sensory overload, or any of the other numerous things happening in a similar situation, is naive.