Tactical Decision Game - Hamburger Gone Bad

[JimFloyd]

Tactical Decision Games (TDG) are utilized by the military and public safety agencies as a low tech, yet effective, means of experiencing and discussing the practical application of decision making skills to situations.

Below is a TDG I created to stimulate your thinking. To participate, please read the TDG, and then make your decision, based only on the (intentionally limited) information provided, within 10 seconds. Then post a reply stating your decision and your rationale.

The goal of a TDG is not to seek "the only" or "the correct" answer but instead is intended to create a social learning environment, so please do not hesitate to participate.

Here is the scenario:

Hamburger Gone Bad

TIME: 11:43 a.m.

PLACE: Biggie Burger Restaurant

WEATHER: Sunny, 80 degrees Fahrenheit

LIGHTING: Indoor fluorescent lighting with sunlight coming through windows

SITUATION: You are a legally armed citizen who has stopped at the local biggie burger to have lunch. You are in the restroom washing your hands when you suddenly hear screams and gunshots. You open the door and look down the hallway to see a man with a rifle standing over a child lying on the floor. The assailant is about to shoot the child in the head but you do not have a clear shot at the gunman.

What is your selected course of action? Make a decision within the next 10 seconds.

 

[42769vette]

jump out and make a noise hoping to turn his attention to me instid of the kid and hopping im faster than him

 

[Hammer]

Run toward the BG without exposing myself to possible other BG (stay in hallway if one is present)all while drawing my weapon and drop to a lowered position taking aim at BG and eliminate that threat.

 

[WETSU]

I would open fire. Let me explain. Okay, on this one, I'm going to make a couple assumptions. First, I assume the guy with the rifle standing over the child is an assailant, not a police officer. Per the original scenario, we have IDd him as the bad guy. Second, if I can see he is armed with a rifle and standing, and I can see he is standing over a child-who I can see on the ground at his feet, AND I have enough visual clues to determine that he is indeed "the bad guy", then I'd say I have a clean enough shot to get my hits. This is what I train for.

 

[indytechnerd]

I'll agree with WETSU on this one. I take the shot that I'm given. I want his attention on me rather than the kid. Hopefully, as WETSU indicated, I've got enough of a visual to put some good shots on target, ending the threat. Hammer brings up a possible 2nd BG, and that's something that I'll have to deal with if necessary. Once contact is made, I've got to finish the job and, God willing, save the kid, the other patrons, and myself, in that order.

 

[dburkhead]

It's a kid. Dammit, I can't just let the BG shoot the kid even at big risk to myself.

I draw, step out to where I do have a clear shot and shout "Drop it *******" (more to draw his attention to me than out of any hope he'd actually comply, then hope to Kolordny that I'm faster.

 

[colt45er]

I would have to do something. Like stated before, if I can see the threat, why do I not have a clear shot? Is it because I can only see part of the BG because of the structure or because of othe people?

If it is structre is blocking, I would use that as cover to get into position, it it is people I would just plain need more info before acting.

Normally I am against yelling stop or freeze when i know they are armed and about to kill, however it would draw attention away from the child I would. At that point I would already have sights trained and ready to fire.

After the BG is dropped I would ahve to visually check to be sure he is in capacitated before doing anythign else. If he is down but not out, he could still fire. I woudl want to move into position to disarm him, however there may be a 2nd BG, I would have to make the decisions as it plays out.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Draw weapon and put a round through the ceiling as I move into position to get a clear shot. My gunshot should shock him, maybe not as much as a flashbang would but enough to confuse him so I could get a shot. Then take the BG out.

 

[indytechnerd]

Draw weapon and put a round through the ceiling as I move into position to get a clear shot. My gunshot should shock him, maybe not as much as a flashbang would but enough to confuse him so I could get a shot. Then take the BG out.

Why put the round into the ceiling? At least SOME part of the BG is exposed, since you can tell it's a man, who has a rifle, pointed at a kid. Unless there's a wall of 8yr olds behind him, put that round as close to on target as you can get while agressively advancing and working to get a clean shot. Distract him via a round snapping past his head, rather than with falling plaster from the ceiling.

 

[BloodEclipse]

Why put the round into the ceiling? At least SOME part of the BG is exposed, since you can tell it's a man, who has a rifle, pointed at a kid. Unless there's a wall of 8yr olds behind him, put that round as close to on target as you can get while agressively advancing and working to get a clean shot. Distract him via a round snapping past his head, rather than with falling plaster from the ceiling.

In the ceiling I am assured of no collateral damage. If I'm shooting from the hallway into the restaurant I could hit anyone. I'd like to think I'm a great shot but under that stress I would not forgive myself without knowing what was downrange, if I shot a bystander.

 

[Cpt Caveman]

Definitely draw the weapon first while keeping an eye on the BG. Probably lodge my left foot in the door enough to keep it open and still so as to not attract attention, then, while continuing to assess the situation, take careful aim on the rifle totin' bad guy's CM, tell him to drop the weapon in a clear, strong, LOUD, voice. If he turns and begins to raise the rifle I'd shoot him til he dropped. Doing my best to make each shot count. Don't want any folks in the background getting shot.
Then if he drops I'd slowly push the door open with my foot , keeping my eye and front sight on the BG's head and ease into the hall looking for any other folks that might want to do me harm. I'd probably be saying something like "I'm a good guy, call 911 " then once I'd come to the conclusion I was safe and the BG was done I'd tend to the lil fellers wounds if there were any. Control bleeding first.
Crappy scenario, made my belly hurt thinking about it. Good to go over in your head though.Add your wife and kids into the mix and boy does it get complicated.

 

[Hoosier Gun Coat]

Draw weapon and put a round through the ceiling as I move into position to get a clear shot. My gunshot should shock him, maybe not as much as a flashbang would but enough to confuse him so I could get a shot. Then take the BG out.

what he said.

 

[Joe Williams]

I will yell to distract him from shooting the child, and take whatever shot I have. If bystanders leave no shot, this would be the one time I'd fire a "warning" shot into the ceiling, though warning wouldn't be the purpose.

 

[Joe Williams]

Why put the round into the ceiling? At least SOME part of the BG is exposed, since you can tell it's a man, who has a rifle, pointed at a kid. Unless there's a wall of 8yr olds behind him, put that round as close to on target as you can get while agressively advancing and working to get a clean shot. Distract him via a round snapping past his head, rather than with falling plaster from the ceiling.

I've been reading the responses to these after giving my answer. I also chose "shoot the ceiling if I have to." One situation where you may be able to see the BG but not have a clear shot, and a very likely one at that, is when the other customers/bystanders are running around in panic, both in front of and behind your target.

 

[Prometheus]

#1 wonder why my wife hasn't dropped the gunman already... next take a shot and continue shooting as I close distance... one of the benefits of carrying a 16+1 round 9mm. Suppressive fire.

At which point I count on my wife to be laying down lead on the badguy I am or on any other bad guys I might not have seen yet. Shoot badguy with rifle to the ground and search for additional threats. Hope I didn't hit the slushie machine.

Basically we save the day and get free slurpees for life from biggie burger

As to "not" having a shot.... be it the arm, shoulder, leg, head something will be there for a shot and since he hasn't seen you yet, you have a second to actually aim. If you can't hit him, aim as close as possible. People get flustered when bullets rush by. Seriously, they do.

 

[Hammer]

In the ceiling I am assured of no collateral damage. If I'm shooting from the hallway into the restaurant I could hit anyone. I'd like to think I'm a great shot but under that stress I would not forgive myself without knowing what was downrange, if I shot a bystander.

That is why I stated to drop my stance. Doing so would reduce the possibility of Collateral Damage of any bystanders past the target BG as the rounds would be in the ceiling.



Just a thought.

 

[techres]

Draw and take a shot, any shot. If I cannot hit him, then fire into a safe direction. If nothing else I want his attention on me over the kid. People should scatter for me to take a better shot or to force him into a different position.

Oh, and I had best be looking for better cover/position.

That would truly suck though...

 

[Flintlock]

Pull my gun and shoot at what is open of the bad guy. If I can see him, something is going to be open. If I absolutely cannot get a shot off, I get ready to fire and then make a hell of a lot of noise and maybe fire into the ground to get his attention off the kid for a second until I am able to get a shot at him. This guy is dead.

 

[Rookie]

First figure out what is in the way of a clear shot. Reposition as necessary. I would not try to cause a distraction - I want the advantage of surprise. Once clear of whatever is in the way, and sure of my backstop, I would shoot until the threat was eliminated.

Taken from another post in this section:

Verbalizing or challenging, as in "Halt - Drop The Gun" is not a good idea. Shut up and kill him. In fact, its virtual suicide in a situation like this. You cannot yell and shoot well at the same time, and yelling may alert the bad guy to your location. There is evidence that this occurred in Tacoma.

 

[dburkhead]

First figure out what is in the way of a clear shot. Reposition as necessary. I would not try to cause a distraction - I want the advantage of surprise. Once clear of whatever is in the way, and sure of my backstop, I would shoot until the threat was eliminated.

Taken from another post in this section:

Verbalizing or challenging, as in "Halt - Drop The Gun" is not a good idea. Shut up and kill him. In fact, its virtual suicide in a situation like this. You cannot yell and shoot well at the same time, and yelling may alert the bad guy to your location. There is evidence that this occurred in Tacoma.

I think you may be missing the point of the distraction. In my case, it was to draw his attention from the kid to me, take the risk on myself to protect the kid. I'd be gambling that it would take him time to shift his point of aim from kid to me and that I can take advantage of that fraction of a second to drop him. A gamble, but aided by the fact that even if he gets a shot off, it won't be well aimed (he won't have time for a "well aimed" shot) and, well, statistics are that there are about 6-8 wounded for every one killed by gunshots. Under those circumstances, I have a lot better chance of surviving than the kid does at essentially zero range with a rifle pointed at his head.

And even if I lose the gamble, I'm still likely to get my shot off or give someone else the opportunity to jump him.

My model in this was the church shooting some time back where the shooter was stopped by an armed parishoner serving as volunteer security. The other hero in that case was a vet who was not security and when one of the other "volunteer security" people was cowering and wouldn't loan the vet his gun, the vet jumped up as a distraction, drawing the attacker's attention (and getting wounded in the process) long enough to give the other volunteer security person her shot.

"Rule one: protect the innocent." It's the motto of the lead character in my webcomic, but I'd like to think it could serve as my own motto as well.