Step by Step Guide: How to manufacture Probable Cause

[rw496]

Agree, they are extremely disconcerting.

I do wish the General Assembly would consider my proposal. I know of no other fix.

Any suggestions from you, Liberty, or anyone else would be appreciated.

Drug dogs are an excellent resource for police, military, etc. The only fix is to hire ethical handlers.

 

[kludge]

Am I free to go?

Go where? The cop said he was detaining his car.

 

[rw496]

The guys from Collinsville travel around teaching interdiction. I don't really agree with some of the things they do; they were into checkpoints for a short time years ago, but those have been found to be illegal for drugs. The stop could have maybe been a little shorter and sweeter.

 

[dross]

A little anecdote.

My uncle is an attorney. Criminal law. His wife at the time of this incident was also an attorney, a public defender. She also happens to be black, and my uncle looks like an old hippie, Leon Russell beard, gray hair ponytail.

So one night they approach a police checkpoint. Rather than stop, they flip around and go the other way. BTW, my uncle always drives old cars. I don't think he'd ever think of buying a new car.

A cop chased them down, siren and lights.

The cop began to get tough with them. They gave him their cards and started asking him questions and writing down the answers. The cop shook his head, turned around, got in his car and drove away.

The cops know when it's best to shut up and not say a word.

 

[rw496]

Go where? The cop said he was detaining his car.

That's another old school thing interdiction guys would do; I never liked that. Detaining the vehicle is the same as detaining him. If you have enough reasonable suspicion to believe criminal activity is afoot, detain him, the car, everything until your suspicion is confirmed or denied. I personally think it sounds dumb to say you can go but I'm keeping your car, your clothes, etc. By the way, it is illegal to walk down an interstate highway.

 

[ATM]

Am I free to go?

He said he was free to go, but not the car.

I still like, "Why am I being detained?"

How's he going to respond... "um... because your passenger sounded nervous to me?"

Not that either would have mattered in this case, but I do agree, he still said way more than needed.

 

[dross]

The guys from Collinsville travel around teaching interdiction. I don't really agree with some of the things they do; they were into checkpoints for a short time years ago, but those have been found to be illegal for drugs. The stop could have maybe been a little shorter and sweeter.

Shouldn't you have to have a real reason to stop someone? Shouldn't the dog have to really alert for you to search a vehicle? Is the 4th Amendment just a game to be played - as long as I say this and this and this, I can ignore it?

How about pulling people over when they violate the law and then if you actually have a good reason you deploy the dog and if the dog actually alerts then you search, and then you don't lie about shake to CYA?

If you did it that way, you wouldn't need to have interdiction teams, which is just another way of saying, "We need a specially trained team who knows how to spit on the Constitution without getting in trouble for it."

 

[dross]

He said he was free to go, but not the car.

I still like, "Why am I being detained?"

How's he going to respond... "um... because your passenger sounded nervous to me?"

Not that either would have mattered in this case, but I do agree, he still said way more than needed.

Nervous talking to a cop who just pulled you over? That's certainly suspicious behavior.

 

[rw496]

Shouldn't you have to have a real reason to stop someone? Shouldn't the dog have to really alert for you to search a vehicle? Is the 4th Amendment just a game to be played - as long as I say this and this and this, I can ignore it?

How about pulling people over when they violate the law and then if you actually have a good reason you deploy the dog and if the dog actually alerts then you search, and then you don't lie about shake to CYA?

If you did it that way, you wouldn't need to have interdiction teams, which is just another way of saying, "We need a specially trained team who knows how to spit on the Constitution without getting in trouble for it."

Yes, all of those are correct.

 

[1911 DeadHead]

It seems people coooperate just to be on there merry way in a timely manner. This star trek talked too much and cooperated, but only dug a hole with his words. You would like to help this officer because he is just doing his job and whatnot, but that guy was just 110% fishy. And the dog didnt seem very obedient from the get go.

I wonder how this officer is even on the force with his past.

 

[Liberty Sanders]

Nervous talking to a cop who just pulled you over? That's certainly suspicious behavior.

This may well be what PO's me the most about all this.

Back in the day, when I pulled a citizen over, if he was not engaged in criminal conduct, he had absolutely nothing to fear from me.

Those days are gone. Innocence no longer protects you. Law enforcement is now motivated by profit.

By the time I retired, part of my yearly performance rating was actually based on how much money and property my men seized.

 

[IN_Sheepdog]

Natural rights, and rights guaranteed by the Constitution are obstacles to efficient law enforcement. I'm glad to see that our motivated and creative LEOs have figured out ways to overcome these problems and get their jobs done. Who cares if a couple of fat Trekkie geeks (who are obviously jerks for recording and posting this) got held by the side of the road for a while? If they weren't doing something wrong this time, they probably got away with something in the past. I hope everyone remembers that this is an isolated incident, and that the cops were just trying to get home to their families safe that day.

dross some get your point... Serious need for Purple on this one.
Set phasers to kill... love it... They did look like trekkies tho didnt they...
Hey, they are citizens too...

 

[rw496]

Nervous talking to a cop who just pulled you over? That's certainly suspicious behavior.

There are different degrees of nervousness. Generally the degree of nervousness from someone worried about getting a ticket is a lot different than someone who has a kilo of cocaine in the car. Regardless, it is pretty well established that nervousness alone is not enough to detain anyone.

 

[IN_Sheepdog]

I think it was awfully nice of the officer to offer the guy a break for 'personal amounts' of marijuana. It's nice that he would have just let him go if he 'fessed up to it.

Thats Bull s*&T ! that is the same as the "interview room" good/bad cop play, of "Here, I'm only trying to help you out, you dont need a lawyer" lies.
I can pretty well guarantee that if they had found ONE joint under that front seat, those trekkies would have found themselves in the USS Collinsville's Brig and been up on drug charges. Im not concerned about personal quantities... yeah right... total BS and lies to gain an admission.

 

[cobber]

Agree, they are extremely disconcerting.

I do wish the General Assembly would consider my proposal. I know of no other fix.

Any suggestions from you, Liberty, or anyone else would be appreciated.

I'm sure the police and DHS will someday come up with a device capable of sampling the air and detecting molecules shed by controlled substances, explosives, and pornography. Well, maybe not the latter.

Somehow I'm not sure this would reassure the civil libertarians amongst us, particularly if the technology actually worked.

Do we really want this?

 

[dross]

It seems people coooperate just to be on there merry way in a timely manner. This star trek talked too much and cooperated, but only dug a hole with his words. You would like to help this officer because he is just doing his job and whatnot, but that guy was just 110% fishy. And the dog didnt seem very obedient from the get go.

I wonder how this officer is even on the force with his past.

That guy could have cooperated, not cooperated, stood on his head, polished the cop's shoes, clicked his heels together three times and the outcome would have been the same.

His car was getting searched the moment the cop flicked the switch for his lights.

 

[1911 DeadHead]

That guy could have cooperated, not cooperated, stood on his head, polished the cop's shoes, clicked his heels together three times and the outcome would have been the same.

His car was getting searched the moment the cop flicked the switch for his lights.

You forgot. He has to say "There's no place like home."

 

[Kirk Freeman]

His car was getting searched the moment the cop flicked the switch for his lights.

Right, but if he stopped running his Cheetoehole other than to say "Am I free to return to Deep Space 9?" it would be VERY clear that this was no consensual encounter.

By talking himself into a scan by Officer Tricorder he presents the police with the option to raise shields.

Kirk out.

 

[kludge]

How would this go over?

"Officer, I have now declined permission to search my vehicle three times. I can tell by your rambling that you don't have any RS or PC to search my vehicle. You've now detained me far longer than is reasonably necessary for any minor traffic violation. I'm going to get back in my car and leave now. Have a nice day."

 

[steveh_131]

How would this go over?