Six-State Trooper Project Targets Move Over/Slow Down Law

[NKBJ]

When Grandad was teaching me how to drive he emphasized something that stayed with me, that most accidents on I-10 happened when someone changed lanes. Experience showed me that he was correct. So when I came a thousand miles north and saw how people here are expected to jump through their backsides to change lanes...

Simply put, it's a really stupid idea. If there isn't room for the trooper to safely pull someone over then the trooper and the person being pulled over need to go find an exit to take care of business. If someone has an emergency and cannot find an exit then that's another story.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

I know the common assumption is traffic enforcement is just revenue collection, but the goal actually is traffic crash/fatality reduction most of the time. Seatbelt enforcement, DUI enforcement, and a program that puts officers at the highest fatality crash intersections is funded from NHTSA grants. I'm not sure if we still have the last one or not, it's been a long time since I worked any sort of traffic grant (or wrote tickets). I used to work DUI enforcement and high fatality intersections, though I wouldn't work seatbelt grants. I think the only time I've written seatbelt tickets was as a compromise between no ticket and a more severe moving violation. I'm sure you could count my career totals on your fingers without starting over.

This is a very unpopular opinion here, but I’m all for DUI checkpoints. My best friends brother was killed at lunch by a drunk driver. At lunch, middle of the day, dude t boned him and killed him. My brother was hit head on by a drunk driver, but he was fine thankfully.


Thanks for sharing your knowledge on the subject, glad to see you back more regularly.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

This is a very unpopular opinion here, but I’m all for DUI checkpoints. My best friends brother was killed at lunch by a drunk driver. At lunch, middle of the day, dude t boned him and killed him. My brother was hit head on by a drunk driver, but he was fine thankfully.


Thanks for sharing your knowledge on the subject, glad to see you back more regularly.

I worked with the people that David Bisard killed/injured. Maybe DUI checkpoints even for cops during the day? And I'm not attacking the INGO LEO here, nor even LEO in general, but Bisard was a POS. And he only got 4 years for killing a person. Should've been a helluva lot longer than that. Sorry, but that's still a sore spot for a lot of people.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

This is a very unpopular opinion here, but I’m all for DUI checkpoints. My best friends brother was killed at lunch by a drunk driver. At lunch, middle of the day, dude t boned him and killed him. My brother was hit head on by a drunk driver, but he was fine thankfully.


Thanks for sharing your knowledge on the subject, glad to see you back more regularly.

I'm not a fan of checkpoints, personally. Understand they are more advertisement then enforcement. You could get more drunks off the road if those officers just rolled around Broad Ripple. It's a show of how important DUI enforcement is taken by the society, which I also understand the value of but never wanted to be a part of. DUI isn't the political hot button it used to be when MADD was a political force, but that's also a pendulum that swings.

To touch on a few other things in the thread:

Police/EMS/Fire etc that go through a checkpoint have to do the same thing you do unless running lights/sirens.

Checkpoints for DUI must have signage and turnoffs and are not compulsory to go through, unlike border checkpoints, etc. One wonders why drunks don't just pull off, but that's not thinking like a drunk.

I knew Bisard, although I hadn't worked with him in years at that point. I think he's a big reason we have a mental health wellness program now, and mandatory time off in which you have to have two different shrinks sign off on you going back to work. I'm not justifying what he did at all, but I do wonder if everyone could have had a better outcome had he been offered, and accepted, those same resources after his shootout in the woods. He was a hard worker and a dedicated cop earlier in his career. Something broke him, maybe on the job or maybe off. There were no winners there.

The guy who was meth'd out, lead my officers on two pursuits, and then threw the machete at me that I came real close to shooting got nothing at all as far as criminal charges. The prosecutor asked me if I was ok with a mental health diversion since he was a vet and was willing to seek treatment. I said yes. Younger me may have not been ok with it. Today me understands broken people do bad things, and while society needs to address it there are things other than prison that may be better options.

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I knew Bisard, although I hadn't worked with him in years at that point. I think he's a big reason we have a mental health wellness program now, and mandatory time off in which you have to have two different shrinks sign off on you going back to work. I'm not justifying what he did at all, but I do wonder if everyone could have had a better outcome had he been offered, and accepted, those same resources after his shootout in the woods. He was a hard worker and a dedicated cop earlier in his career. Something broke him, maybe on the job or maybe off. There were no winners there.

Appreciate the input. If the mental health wellness program was a result of that ****-show, then I guess that's a positive. EAP's have been around for a long time in just about all industries. If it wasn't available to PD's prior to Bisard then that's a shame.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Appreciate the input. If the mental health wellness program was a result of that ****-show, then I guess that's a positive. EAP's have been around for a long time in just about all industries. If it wasn't available to PD's prior to Bisard then that's a shame.

Cops and departments historically suck at it. We're just too tough for that sort of thing, you know. Alcoholism was often the result of that "toughness", both in cops and in veterans. Suicide rates of both can also tell the story...

 

[Ingomike]

If I’m (and everyone else) honest I want the limited law enforcement power to go towards doing Things that help me personally because I’m a typical selfish American. Let’s start with 2 cops sitting at Harding st exit And waving over every tri ax they see to write them an unsecured load ticket. I got a pretty good guess those 2 would generate more than enough to pay for their day.

those trucks cause tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage each year because drivers can’t be bothered to follow the law and roll their tarps down.

I believe the most effective deterrent for the failure to cover their load is to call dispatch for the company. Most of them require the driver to do this. Also let dispatch know you are calling ISP motor enforcement. They will get the message...

 

[DoggyDaddy]

I believe the most effective deterrent for the failure to cover their load is to call dispatch for the company. Most of them require the driver to do this. Also let dispatch know you are calling ISP motor enforcement. They will get the message...

Agreed. And some of those tri-ax trucks have one of those "How's My Driving?" signs on the back, with a phone number.

 

[Hatin Since 87]

Checkpoints for DUI must have signage and turnoffs and are not compulsory to go through, unlike border checkpoints, etc. One wonders why drunks don't just pull off, but that's not thinking like a drunk.

Wouldn’t this draw suspicion, and probably end up being pulled over to be checked out and asked why they avoided the checkpoint? Even as a regular citizen, if I was in line and saw someone turn around my first thought would be “yep, drunk”.

 

[Ingomike]

Agreed. And some of those tri-ax trucks have one of those "How's My Driving?" signs on the back, with a phone number.

Always get the truck number and license plate number. Photos can help.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Simply put, it's a really stupid idea. If there isn't room for the trooper to safely pull someone over then the trooper and the person being pulled over need to go find an exit to take care of business. If someone has an emergency and cannot find an exit then that's another story.

I got ticketed in Louisville by an LMPD officer in a construction zone for 10 over. I was going the speed limit verified by my gps. It was a narrow 2 lane on the Watterson with Jersey barriers on both sides, no shoulder with a ton of semis. I put on my flashers, and got off at the next exit which was 2 miles down and pulled over at the first parking lot. The first thing he did was rip me a new one for not immediately stopping.
I don’t care if that jackass wants to get himself killed on the road, but I don’t play in traffic. I’ve had EVOC and driven an ambulance for years, i have a bit of an idea of how to be safe under those conditions.
It cost me $250 to take their “safety” class for me not speeding. When I looked in to taking it to court, the fine could have been $900 if I lost and no one ever wins in that court. Yeah, quotas and revenue generation because the diversion money goes straight to the city.
I am not anti law enforcement at all. My wife is a former OSP trooper and many of my close friends are LEO. I’m anti-jackass in any profession and definitely against highway robbery, which this was.

 

[actaeon277]

Wouldn’t this draw suspicion, and probably end up being pulled over to be checked out and asked why they avoided the checkpoint? Even as a regular citizen, if I was in line and saw someone turn around my first thought would be “yep, drunk”.

Think I saw somewhere, that a court ruled that is a "no-no".

And I've heard a few officers state, checkpoints are less effective than just having officers drive around.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Wouldn’t this draw suspicion, and probably end up being pulled over to be checked out and asked why they avoided the checkpoint? Even as a regular citizen, if I was in line and saw someone turn around my first thought would be “yep, drunk”.

Turning around and turning off aren't the same thing. A turn off means there is a sign saying "check point ahead" and then there are intersections were you can turn to avoid the checkpoint. That's not suspicious in the slightest by itself, it's just someone turning left or right. Run over the curb, floor it, and spin 180, well yeah, that's suspicious but not because of the turn.

There are "chase cars" that if you do something illegal to avoid the checkpoint will stop you. Driving through the grass, illegal u-turn, running through it without stopping striking someone, it all happens.

 

[jamil]

I think the most common use of traffic stops is fishing expeditions, looking for drugs or something else. The drug war and civil forfeiture are the biggest culprits from my point of view.

Plus as stated up thread, the best deterrent is visibility, ie cars seen on the road. Where police cars used to loudly scream what they were, most today try hard to hide it. More and more police cars have gone the stealth route. Cars get painted in normal colors, lights are either really low profile or are hidden totally, more unmarked cars, and non-standard vehicles are used, like a pickup truck. They hide or drive around with their radar on trying to catch people going the other way.

Things may be different in the large cities, but get out of them and this is what I see. ISP and county Sheriffs especially.

Got pulled over in nowhere Colorado on the way to Denver for not signaling a lane change passing a truck with no one else on the road as far as I could see. I changed lanes I’d guess several hundred feet from the truck. I wasn’t speeding either. I have no idea where the cop was hiding. A few minutes after Who the **** pulls people over just for that? The ******* was either bored or fishing. I’d give strong odds it was a little of the former and a lot of the latter. After he stuck his head in the vehicle he let me off with a stern warning about how important it is to signal lane changes even in the middle of goat-**** Colorado when no one is around.

 

[foszoe]

Got pulled over in nowhere Colorado on the way to Denver for not signaling a lane change passing a truck with no one else on the road as far as I could see. I changed lanes I’d guess several hundred feet from the truck. I wasn’t speeding either. I have no idea where the cop was hiding. A few minutes after Who the **** pulls people over just for that? The ******* was either bored or fishing. I’d give strong odds it was a little of the former and a lot of the latter. After he stuck his head in the vehicle he let me off with a stern warning about how important it is to signal lane changes even in the middle of goat-**** Colorado when no one is around.

AS unaware as you were of your surroundings by being absolutely certain there was no one else around as far as you could see.....yet a cop saw you and pulled you over should reinforce how incorrect you were in your assessment of the situation and how important it is to signal a lane change every time and do the right thing even when no one is looking. It could save a life.

 

[jamil]

AS unaware as you were of your surroundings by being absolutely certain there was no one else around as far as you could see.....yet a cop saw you and pulled you over should reinforce how incorrect you were in your assessment of the situation and how important it is to signal a lane change every time and do the right thing even when no one is looking. It could save a life.

Really? You gonna use the SA blame game?

It was flat. For miles. No exit for miles. No place to hide. My guess was that he was far enough behind me I didn’t see him in my rear view but he could see me. Signaling lane changes is usually automatic. Except that time. I guess? He said I didn’t signal. I took his word for it that I didn’t. It’s usually something I just do, and so I didn’t remember. Pulling me over for that was petty. The goat-****er was fishing for something.

 

[KellyinAvon]

Cops and departments historically suck at it. We're just too tough for that sort of thing, you know. Alcoholism was often the result of that "toughness", both in cops and in veterans. Suicide rates of both can also tell the story...

WW II Vets, definitely. No doubt the ones who came before them as well. That set the standard for many decades.

 

[KLB]

AS unaware as you were of your surroundings by being absolutely certain there was no one else around as far as you could see.....yet a cop saw you and pulled you over should reinforce how incorrect you were in your assessment of the situation and how important it is to signal a lane change every time and do the right thing even when no one is looking. It could save a life.

I'm going to have to call

Do tell how a signal would save a life in that situation. It is more likely to cause someone to speed up to try to stop you from changing lanes than what it should do. If a driver doesn't see a car in the next lane, using a turn signal is not going to do much.

Then explain how in my situation it could possibly save a life? I was on US30 for 1/4 mile. Traffic behind me on 30 was stopped at a light. In fact, I am pretty certain I did signal. I did on my turn onto 30. I did moving into the left turn lane. I did to turn left. My signal will blink three times for a lane change. He probably missed it. It was a pure fishing expedition. I guess I should have just turned into the far lane directly.

 

[jamil]

I'm going to have to call

Do tell how a signal would save a life in that situation. It is more likely to cause someone to speed up to try to stop you from changing lanes than what it should do. If a driver doesn't see a car in the next lane, using a turn signal is not going to do much.

Then explain how in my situation it could possibly save a life? I was on US30 for 1/4 mile. Traffic behind me on 30 was stopped at a light. In fact, I am pretty certain I did signal. I did on my turn onto 30. I did moving into the left turn lane. I did to turn left. My signal will blink three times for a lane change. He probably missed it. It was a pure fishing expedition. I guess I should have just turned into the far lane directly.

There are certainly situations where turn signals can help avoid an accident. Like when two or more vehicles would otherwise have tried to occupy the same space at the same time at a high closure speed. As you pointed out there was absolutely no benefit at all for me to signal a lane change in my situation other than to avoid running afoul of the traffic law. It was impossible for any of the vehicles in that situation to occupy the same space at the same time.

It's illegal all the time not to signal a lane change, but I suspect most cops wouldn't bother to pull someone for my situation. Unless they're fishing. This power-trip goat-****er just wanted to see if he could dig up some excitement. I mean, he did the whole poke his chest out, thumbs in the belt, bigdick strut up to the vehicle that seems too cliche to actually do.

 

[KLB]

There are certainly situations where turn signals can help avoid an accident. Like when two or more vehicles would otherwise have tried to occupy the same space at the same time at a high closure speed. As you pointed out there was absolutely no benefit at all for me to signal a lane change in my situation other than to avoid running afoul of the traffic law. It was impossible for any of the vehicles in that situation to occupy the same space at the same time.

It's illegal all the time not to signal a lane change, but I suspect most cops wouldn't bother to pull someone for my situation. Unless they're fishing. This power-trip goat-****er just wanted to see if he could dig up some excitement. I mean, he did the whole poke his chest out, thumbs in the belt, bigdick strut up to the vehicle that seems too cliche to actually do.

Did you play 20 questions with him?