SHTF: Shotgun or AR?

[No Time to Shoot]

Thanks for the REP! Did anyone look at the buckshot tests they ran? I never thought about what happens when you shoot shot out of a rifled barrel.
Here's the link:

Check it out

 

[Royal-1]

I like the last line best, but I'm the same way, I have all 4 types. All can be used to do about the same thing but some are better than others, kind of like using a kitchen knife as a screwdriver.

And a 12 gauge shotgun can have everything from rock salt to a saboted slug. Without needing to trade out barrels and magazines. I think utility-wise a shotgun beats the AR hands down.

SHTF, I plan on staying put, I've got 4 handguns, 2 shotguns, and 2 rifles, so just pass me the next one, and reload the empty one. Traveling home, I've got handguns, and a 2 ton weapon for that.

Best bet in any case is to avoid a fire-fight.[/quote]

 

[Gunfan]

Honestly, if the bad guys are close enough for the SG, I will be going, as my two year old says, "poopy in my big boy pants". I like having the ability to get them before they even know I'm there. If need be, I could "borrow" a shotgun from one of the boys that I took out from 300 yards.

 

[agentl074]

Honestly, if the bad guys are close enough for the SG, I will be going, as my two year old says, "poopy in my big boy pants". I like having the ability to get them before they even know I'm there. If need be, I could "borrow" a shotgun from one of the boys that I took out from 300 yards.

Same here! Keep them away!

 

[bwframe]

Honestly, if the bad guys are close enough for the SG, I will be going, as my two year old says, "poopy in my big boy pants". I like having the ability to get them before they even know I'm there. If need be, I could "borrow" a shotgun from one of the boys that I took out from 300 yards.

If they're not already shooting at you, how do you know they are BGs at 300 yards?

 

[HICKMAN]

If they're not already shooting at you, how do you know they are BGs at 300 yards?

Simple

 

[Gunfan]

If they're tip toe-ing from tree to tree, are not wearing a badge, and are not my family, then they're bad guys. A shotgun absolutely has advantages in some situations, but if it's all I brought with me and they do start shooting from 300 yards, then I have a big disadvantage. Then again, someone who shoots as poorly as I, should probably stick with the shotgun. So I guess it could go either way.

 

[bwframe]

If they're tip toe-ing from tree to tree, are not wearing a badge, and are not my family, then they're bad guys. A shotgun absolutely has advantages in some situations, but if it's all I brought with me and they do start shooting from 300 yards, then I have a big disadvantage. Then again, someone who shoots as poorly as I, should probably stick with the shotgun. So I guess it could go either way.

I agree with you on the long distance thing so long as you can absolutely determine a threat. Hickman is right on.

The scenario that I'm trying to get across though is one where I am headed toward my family, on foot with rifle. My path goes near or through your property. Does that mean I'm a dead man?

 

[Gunfan]

Only if you tip-toe from tree to tree. Seriously, point taken. In a perfect world you would know what you're in for. There are so many scenarios, I only hope that I can bring more than one weapon. I guess I just figure that if there is time to grab one, then there's time to grab a couple more.

 

[phil]

My plan would be grab whatever is close! You can always "upgrade" along the way! If you really wanted a good plan, you should talk to the neighbors...one can grab the SG, one the AR...so on and so on. And find a general meeting place if SHTF!

 

[bwframe]

Only if you tip-toe from tree to tree. Seriously, point taken. In a perfect world you would know what you're in for. There are so many scenarios, I only hope that I can bring more than one weapon. I guess I just figure that if there is time to grab one, then there's time to grab a couple more.

You appear to be in the same rural situation as me. I'm just trying to present the same mental arguments I've run across. Determining the threat is the toughest and likely won't happen at long range.

I've seriously considered a double barrel "coach gun" as a truck/canoe/garden gun. Obvious, but not too imposing. It also doesn't scream "I'm an uber gun nut" with stuff to steal or freak out LEO's causing their minds to wonder, thinking I'm some kind of an anarchist. At the same time, any stranger closer than 50 yards would know you mean business. Combine it up with the usual handgun and you have a "get me home" package.

If I'm gonna go into a known fight, hell yes, I'll be carrying a pump, semi-auto, or better yet an AR.

 

[Cavman]

id say ar. just for fact can carry more ammor if ya gotta move

 

[Zoub]

I've seriously considered a double barrel "coach gun" as a truck/canoe/garden gun.

As a................ah hell lets just say as a friend I can honestly tell you it's kind of a cluster F*** in a canoe with a double on all levels. any shotgun is too long, no safe direction to point it in a canoe loaded and shooting it requires some dilligence if you want to stay dry.

I am guessing it won't surprise you to hear me say I have even fired shotguns from canoes before. Yeah, I don't do that anymore. I never got wet, usually hit what I was aiming at but I am past that stage in my life now. I know you are young, but just take my advice on this one.

IF I take a shotgun in a canoe again, it would be a pump, 18" barrel, short stock, likely a 20 gauge. Pump because I can keep it at the ready but with an empty chamber. You can also break it down and pack it away if you want.

All my tackle box guns are handguns. One step up from that is a Keltec carbine. I have a 9mm that uses Glock mags packed nicely in a laptop case. Nice and compact but you can jack in a 33rd mag when needed. It is a nice compromise and for the price, frankly a great stick it out the kitchen window and fire 33 times gun. All the women in the family can operate Glocks, AR's and the Keltec, shotguns too but last choice for them.

A person in the bow of a canoe with a Keltec and 33rd mags is gonna do some damage.

 

[haldir]

I used to spend a big part of every fall jump shooting ducks from a canoe, sometimes alone, sometimes with a partner. I always carried one of two guns, a BPS (3.5 inch) on streams that sometimes held geese, or an 1100 if just ducks. Both 12 gauges. That BPS os a 30 inch barrel I think and never had a bit of problem. Obviously you want to do some serious wiping down, drying out and lubing of guns like this. Never got any rust on either way over the years. I would out the butt on the floor and the barrel was leaned against the side and mid brace pointing forward and to the side. Obviously if you are in the back safety dictates that your shots are going to be fewer as you have to wait for them to be off to the side or almost straight up.

 

[Zoub]

Yeah, but if you are fishing or actually canoeing then you have rods, tackle boxes and a shotgun, not to mention paddles. It gets to be a bit much and keeping tabs on a loaded double in that situation is less than ideal. BTDT and that is what my point is.

Hunting is a different scenario, BTDT too and it works fine for me in a canoe but as I said and you seem to agree, doubles just don't get it. If the gun is for defensive use in a canoe, shotgun is last choice, double last of the shotguns. Defensive shooting will require low shots and at angles not of your choosing, you can't wait for shots to present at safe angles and you can't assume your passengers will be to your level of expertise in a canoe. You can't even assume they can swim, I made that mistake once. At that point even dumping the canoe is not an option.

I had my exeriences that showed me the light on that. Hunting is one thing in a canoe, defense another.

 

[Serial Crusher]

I would say shotgun for SHTF only one choice situation because I live in the middle of nowhere and getting food would be more likely than defense. That's not to say that I don't have/want an AR or that I wouldn't carry both, plus a handgun in a real TEOTWAWKI situation.

 

[No Time to Shoot]

The biggest problem with the SHTF scenario is figuring out who's your friend and who's your enemy. How do you determine that? Or do we just shoot first and figure out what to do with the rotten corpses later? Besides if your killing innocent people not only is it wrong but your wasting ammo that should be used on BG's.

I live in a densely populated urban area that would greatly limit my shot range to a maximum of 150 yards which is will within the effective range of a quality deer slug.

 

[haldir]

The biggest problem with the SHTF scenario is figuring out who's your friend and who's your enemy. How do you determine that? Or do we just shoot first and figure out what to do with the rotten corpses later? Besides if your killing innocent people not only is it wrong but your wasting ammo that should be used on BG's.

I agree with you there. After all, we have had several members on here indicate that they would quickly begin killing other people to get their guns and ammo for their own stocks in a SHTF scenario. Obviously you want to identify them as quickly as possible and shoot them on sight.

 

[Richard]

Yup unfortunately there are people who I believe are eager for society to collapse so that law enforcement is no longer a threat to them.

Those sorts of people need to be delt with in the same manner that they had planned on treating you & your family, that is with absolutely no mercy.

 

[Smitty506th]

I too agree. This is where a network of friends and family should be organized with radio communication with those around you. If something gets that bad working together and meeting challenges as a group is what will facilitate a faster reorganization of law and order and get things back on the right track.

I would think that the best platform would depend on the most sustainable type of ammunition you think you could find. Having various weapons that would accept "found" ammunition would be key. A 12g or an AR would be two things that I would have. The likelihood of engaging targets at 300 meters may be a stretch. I would not discount the power of a rifle round but it is hard to beat the 12g.