Security Cameras

[KittySlayer]

If I understood the OP, I think your instinct is telling you there is more to this than "What cameras do I buy, and where do I put them?"

I've seen A LOT of people/organizations jump to implement a technology 'solution' without really asking the important questions:

• What are the objectives, and in what order?
• Does this solution accomplish these objectives; and to what degree?
• What are the potential unintended consequences or problems with this solution. (This one is the silent killer.)

In the end, will the cameras solve your original problems, and are they worth the costs. Maybe, but I always recommend due diligence and discussion BEFORE installation, and include strategies for the 'bad parts' into the plan.

Tackdriver, you have hit the tack on the head.

Yes, my instinct told me there is more than just plugging in a camera and magically making everything rainbows and unicorns. Thus I reached out to a trusted and robust source of intelligence like INGO. Since I don't surf porn I guess I will get dinged for looking at INGO.

I have always been an advocate of if you can't solve it without a computer then technology isn't going to magically solve it. I really wish they would consider some real solutions instead of feel good solutions. Cameras can be part of the overall solution but they should not ignore many other factors.

Thanks for pointing out unintended consequences. I will (try to) make them come up with some written policies on the use of the footage.

 

[bigretic]

If I understood the OP, I think your instinct is telling you there is more to this than "What cameras do I buy, and where do I put them?"

I've seen A LOT of people/organizations jump to implement a technology 'solution' without really asking the important questions:

• What are the objectives, and in what order?
• Does this solution accomplish these objectives; and to what degree?
• What are the potential unintended consequences or problems with this solution. (This one is the silent killer.)

Internet firewall reports in private SMB size businesses are a classic case study. In short: Everybody wants them, until you ask (diplomatically) : Do you want a written record of which porn sites your managers prefer? Do you want to know how much time your employees really waste online? What action will you to need to take (and what will the reaction be)? Me: "If this is what you want, I can turn it on today." Client: "Hmmm... I need some time to blah, blah, blah... I'll let you know when to turn it on." ... and it's never mentioned again!

RE: Video Surveillance

What's the strategy for handling subpoenas and requests to retain evidence from XYZ period? This might be related to the intended purpose (vandalism or assault), but it might be law suites against your tenants, domestic wars, related to the neighbors, or even against the building owners. Ambulance chasers and a slip-and-fall?

How do you handle tenants wanting footage to fight about who parked in their space? Did somebody smoke where they weren't supposed to when nobody was there? Hall monitors are everywhere, and they love video.

Who controls access to the footage, and how is it controlled? What if your "security guy" is a voyeur, catches some "inappropriate behavior" of a tenant, then plasters it online? Are there any reporter concerns? "...evidence that ABC Inc. is having secret meetings with XYZ Co."

In the end, will the cameras solve your original problems, and are they worth the costs. Maybe, but I always recommend due diligence and discussion BEFORE installation, and include strategies for the 'bad parts' into the plan.

Then the firewall wasn't implemented correctly in the first place. I do "get" your point, but you can allocate extreme or worse case scenarios to about anything if you are in search if dissuading someone from the product/solution. Outside of a court order, the answer is no. Although I have provided footage for police many times voluntarily at an owner's request.

 

[tackdriver]

Then the firewall wasn't implemented correctly in the first place.

The firewalls are just fine, and configured to the needs/wants of each client. The options are granular and scalable for a reason. (Some want the reporting. Some don't. Some do, and then ignore them once the novelty wears off).

... you can allocate extreme or worse case scenarios to about anything if you are in search if dissuading someone from the product/solution.

Agreed! You can also focus on only the best case and shinny 'features' when you want to sell something. It's called Marketing. We're bombarded with it constantly. As a consultant, I get paid for advice and experience. If it doesn't go beyond the sales brochures, I'm irrelevant. As long as the advice and the implementation are solid, my pay's the same. (BTW - I also do marketing - just different).

Outside of a court order, the answer is no. Although I have provided footage for police many times voluntarily at an owner's request.

A subpoena kind of is a court order. The court used to have to issue them (or stamp them), but got lazy and delegated that power to the Bar. Now attorneys can and do use them to cast very wide (often unreasonable) nets.

I'm not saying don't put in the cameras. The OP was asking for advice, and I assumed they wanted something other than the norm. If more thought goes into the policy/procedure part of the solution, I'd call that an improvement.

 

[bigretic]

Correctly was a poor word choice on my part. In my head i was thinking why wasn't content/web/application filtering enabled, but i forget clients come in all sizes and firewall to one may not be the same to another. In all honesty I find the reporting ability of most firewall systems out of the box terrible at best. Oddly topic related, i'm demoing some Ubiquiti cameras currently.

 

[Cameramonkey]

Several things.

Retention goes WAY down when you dont control your frame rates. Remember kids, you're collecting evidence, not shooting a hollywood movie. You dont need 25FPS unless you want to drastically shorten your retention times. 10-15FPS for most areas is good enough. Only run full frame rates when you are dealing with high speed subjects.

And in most cases, camera footage is always used as secondary evidence or used to locate a suspect. Or to show to a jury during a trial or to provide PC when they have other evidence.

I've had my cams requested several times. One time a girl was shot down the road from me as she slept in her bed during a drive by. (shes fine now) Cops were banging on my door at 4am asking if I could see if the car drove by my house. I told them they did not. Turns out the ahole that did it lived between us so he didnt get as far as me. I also provided the footage when my neighbor across the street was held up outside her house as she scraped her windows to go to work. (she panicked and ran in the house and her pitbull scared him off)

My office (who does cameras as part of our services) is working with our neighbors to setup LPRs at every entrance to our neighborhood. (3 points) We are using their property and power to setup the cams so we have licence numbers when thieves drive in to break into offices, steal catalytics, etc. And that works. We caught one guy several years ago on camera stealing several times. Cops paid him a visit and he never returned. Not sure if we were able to prosecute, but we had enough evidence at least to let him know he needed to go elsewhere to do his thing.

They arent going to stop anyone, but they may provide the evidence you need later. So they arent a total waste.

 

[tackdriver]

Correctly was a poor word choice on my part. In my head i was thinking why wasn't content/web/application filtering enabled, but i forget clients come in all sizes and firewall to one may not be the same to another. In all honesty I find the reporting ability of most firewall systems out of the box terrible at best. Oddly topic related, i'm demoing some Ubiquiti cameras currently.

I'd be interested in our experience with Ubiquiti cameras I'm using a number of their AP's now, and loved some of the building to building stuff I used years ago. I've got a couple "Dream Machine Pro's" sitting around getting old, and a few other gateway devices that I wanted to love, but just can't. (Some of the problem is me). Good luck with the cameras. I like their idea of an ecosystem with locks, cameras, phones, etc. under one roof.

 

[bigretic]

I'd be interested in our experience with Ubiquiti cameras I'm using a number of their AP's now, and loved some of the building to building stuff I used years ago. I've got a couple "Dream Machine Pro's" sitting around getting old, and a few other gateway devices that I wanted to love, but just can't. (Some of the problem is me). Good luck with the cameras. I like their idea of an ecosystem with locks, cameras, phones, etc. under one roof.

We are doing a 24k sq foot building next year ground up and i am pondering the camera and access system for that. No way I would attempt a retro install. I have a half dozen switches, a 1g wireless point to point bridge, and about 13 aps in use at our main facility.
I'm doing a Dream router with 4 of the 5 G5 bullets for a test on the camera capabilities. My initial response is it is so much different than a "normal" d/nvr interface it is off putting, but when you put on your ubiquiti hat on it makes more sense. The dashboard is pretty cool. The last snips are zooms of motion detection on cameras. This is default behavior out of the box. Took me a minute to figure that out. It was tracking a squirrel on one of the cameras... lol. The insights page is interesting, it puts a heat signature map over the camera image to show areas with the most motion. I will be investigating the smart tracking stuff this week, but first impressions are impressive.

 

[StayTrue76]

As an IT guy and camera installer, the one thing I noticed you didn't cover was retention. Personally I love the vandal dome with color at night. There are tons of options for cameras, the bullet with mechanical zoom and get you the distance & quality. Your building layout may also cause you a few headaches, basic cable limitiation is 300', but can buy extended by several options.

Agreed on the retention. On the home front - I have years of old footage from cams, but do I ever need/want that? Eh, maybe? In a work environment, it all depends on compliance / regulation (i.e. need to keep for 2 yrs). Retention often takes a back seat to things.

 

[StayTrue76]

Whatever you think you need in retention, triple it if your budget allows... I have many stories.

Def. better to have it and not need it, than the other way around.

 

[Leo]

We see a lot of these contraptions down here in Btown. All the Krogers have one and I've noticed them in random parking lots here and there. Looks as if there might be more than one company that does this sort of mobile security system.



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The Krogers by me put one of those up in the lot during the covid lock downs. I thought that was part of government tracking for monitoring the spread of disease. Now I notice the whole store is full of cameras.

 

[MrSmitty]

Roving robot dogs armed with lasers, and shotguns are not an option?