Seattle: funniest thing I've read all month

[Twangbanger]

I've read it forwards and backwards, folks, but I can't find any reference to The Onion or Sacramento Bee. Apparently this is real:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/s...sedgntp&cvid=302574b9c5d746768ac1b25b2f1c141b

"...Seattle’s Link Light Rail is a freeloader’s paradise.

There are no turnstiles, so passengers are supposed to either buy a ticket or tap their pre-paid card. But so few riders are paying, fares are currently covering just 5% of the system’s operating costs, a fraction of the 40% mark Sound Transit set as a requirement..."

"...By one measurement, as many as a staggering 70% of all passengers are free riders. But even that is only an estimate as there is almost no fare enforcement. Sound Transit did away with fare enforcement officers after a study revealed people of color were disproportionately getting fined. Instead, the system now relies on fare ambassadors (Edit:). There are only a handful for the whole light rail system, so riders will rarely encounter them. They currently engage only 2% of all riders..."

"...Most of the Sound Transit Board members seem unfazed by the poor fare collection performance...Sound Transit collects money from virtually everyone in Pierce, Snohomish and King counties. Those who live inside the special taxing district have to pay extra property tax and a much higher fee for their car tabs. Depending on the Blue Book value of the car it can easily cost an extra $200-$300 each year to register. And everyone pays an additional 1.4% on their sales tax to fund Sound Transit."

Tax revenue keeps increasing as fare revenue keeps plunging..."

 

[ancjr]

Now, find out what percentage of operating cost that fares cover in other cities' public transportation. Seattle isn't the only joke.

 

[Twangbanger]

Now, find out what percentage of operating cost that fares cover in other cities' public transportation. Seattle isn't the only joke.

That Seattle's "target" fare payment rate was only 40%, is quite revealing.

 

[wtburnette]

Progressive wonderland...

 

[jake blue]

Even established and reliably funded public transit systems only self-fund an average of 50% through fares collected. The other half comes from property taxes levied on local residents regardless if they actually use the public transit or special bonds to bolster the budget in the short term. Or in special cases federal funding like during the COVID crisis when NYC expected the federal government to provide a billion dollars worth of subsidies to offset their losses when no one was traveling on their trains and busses because they were all scared to venture out of their homes.

 

[ancjr]

Even established and reliably funded public transit systems only self-fund an average of 50% through fares collected. The other half comes from property taxes levied on local residents regardless if they actually use the public transit or special bonds to bolster the budget in the short term. Or in special cases federal funding like during the COVID crisis when NYC expected the federal government to provide a billion dollars worth of subsidies to offset their losses when no one was traveling on their trains and busses because they were all scared to venture out of their homes.

This right here. Public transportation is a governmental loss leader.

 

[Bugzilla]

Public transportation. The problem is not the transportation!

 

[BugI02]

I've read it forwards and backwards, folks, but I can't find any reference to The Onion or Sacramento Bee. Apparently this is real:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/s...sedgntp&cvid=302574b9c5d746768ac1b25b2f1c141b

"...Seattle’s Link Light Rail is a freeloader’s paradise.

There are no turnstiles, so passengers are supposed to either buy a ticket or tap their pre-paid card. But so few riders are paying, fares are currently covering just 5% of the system’s operating costs, a fraction of the 40% mark Sound Transit set as a requirement..."

"...By one measurement, as many as a staggering 70% of all passengers are free riders. But even that is only an estimate as there is almost no fare enforcement. Sound Transit did away with fare enforcement officers after a study revealed people of color were disproportionately getting fined. Instead, the system now relies on fare ambassadors (Edit:). There are only a handful for the whole light rail system, so riders will rarely encounter them. They currently engage only 2% of all riders..."

"...Most of the Sound Transit Board members seem unfazed by the poor fare collection performance...Sound Transit collects money from virtually everyone in Pierce, Snohomish and King counties. Those who live inside the special taxing district have to pay extra property tax and a much higher fee for their car tabs. Depending on the Blue Book value of the car it can easily cost an extra $200-$300 each year to register. And everyone pays an additional 1.4% on their sales tax to fund Sound Transit."

Tax revenue keeps increasing as fare revenue keeps plunging..."

I could see where the people paying the extra car registration fees and extra sales tax; you know, people with a job, might feel they have already paid their share

 

[jwamplerusa]

Do you think our Indianapolis red and purple lines are much better?

 

[Leadeye]

How much federal and state money is covering this? I would bet that a lot of people who will never use this service are paying for it.

 

[jake blue]

Do you think our Indianapolis red and purple lines are much better?

I lived downtown when the red line was being constructed and it was very popular when it first launched because they were not collecting fares but as soon as they finally began charging and the free rides were over the ridership dropped to almost nothing.

 

[churchmouse]

How much federal and state money is covering this? I would bet that a lot of people who will never use this service are paying for it.

Just like schools. We sent our kids to private schools yet we still were forced to support a system we despised. And years out from having kids in school we are still forced to do so.

Same ****.

 

[AndreusMaximus]

Now, find out what percentage of operating cost that fares cover in other cities' public transportation. Seattle isn't the only joke.

Yeah, I don't think anyone with two brain cells to rub together was surprised at how little of the operational costs were covered by fares; all of us (okay, most of us) on here are well aware of the standards our government sets for budgets and operational efficiency.

The funny part about this story was the reason they stopped enforcing fare collection. Though I suppose we really should've seen that coming too...

 

[indyjohn]

Do you think our Indianapolis red and purple lines are much better?

No.

 

[Tombs]

So they create a service you don't have to pay for, and then are surprised when people don't pay for it?

 

[ancjr]

Yeah, I don't think anyone with two brain cells to rub together was surprised at how little of the operational costs were covered by fares; all of us (okay, most of us) on here are well aware of the standards our government sets for budgets and operational efficiency.

The funny part about this story was the reason they stopped enforcing fare collection. Though I suppose we really should've seen that coming too...

Same reason in both cases. They take in private and give in public so as to maintain appearances.

 

[rosejm]

This should be no surprise to anyone and as mentioned, even the target revenue to expenses rate of 40% was optimistic.

Even the NICTD (South Shore) commuter line, which is reasonably well run and enforced (collectors are checking every rider's ticket), they're only managing 33% of the operating expenses. Public transportation is not enjoyable enough to ever charge full price.

The issue comes down to this question: would you pay the same amount it cost you to drive/park your personal vehicle if it took twice as long to get there AND you had to share your experience with the general public?

 

[xwing]

As usual, anything government funded is done very poorly. They just continue to hit taxpayers to pay for their various ineffective boondoggles. But Seattle is a standout in stupidity.

 

[JettaKnight]

This should be no surprise to anyone and as mentioned, even the target revenue to expenses rate of 40% was optimistic.

Even the NICTD (South Shore) commuter line, which is reasonably well run and enforced (collectors are checking every rider's ticket), they're only managing 33% of the operating expenses. Public transportation is not enjoyable enough to ever charge full price.

The issue comes down to this question: would you pay the same amount it cost you to drive/park your personal vehicle if it took twice as long to get there AND you had to share your experience with the general public?

In America, you're correct. And personally I couldn't love with it.

But, I was in Berlin, and their system is really good. I'm sure it's far cheaper than a car and probably faster for most places.

No turnstiles, but do not get caught traveling without a ticket.

 

[BigMoose]

Saint Louis Metrolink is a turnstyle less system
Enforcement is key to making these systems work.
There is a law enforcement officer on the Missouri side that randomly jumps on on the trains and conducts ticket checks. Can't show a ticket. Its fine time. Just that threat is enough to make people buy the tickets.

The recent issue with farebox recovery, is Covid. Its been like a nuclear holocaust for all public transit. Ridership has plummeted. But the fixed costs of the trains remain.

South Shore was near 40% farebox recovery before Covid. But South Shore is a different animal. It is an old school train, Those are not collectors, those are old school TRAIN CONDUCTORS. No Fare.. your butt is getting put off the train. Well or you can buy a fare on the spot from the Conductor. South Shore also has a railroad freight side unlike 95% of the systems in America. The trackage fees paid by the movement of freight is used to maintain the infrastructure and isn't counted in the fair box recovery. It just reduces the overall costs to the state of Indiana.