Rubber buckshot or bean bag on top of #4 buckshot

[VUPDblue]

One thread on this topic is enough. Merged.

 

[2A_Tom]

IMHO you assume a lot about how intruders/assailants will react in high adrenaline or potentially drugged up situations. There are plenty of videos online of shootings, and quite often the people being shot don't seem to be cognizant that they have been hit and stay in the fight.

Bbbb but I saw in the movies that a single shot to the little toe killed a boy and his mother.

 

[Denny347]

I used to carry Super Sock 12ga bean bag rounds as less lethal. They are great for limited situations. However, there is a VERY specific hit zone on the human body (the belly/gut) that is safe. Outside of that and there is a very good risk of death. The force equivalent of the bean bag round is being hit with a 90mph baseball pitch. The idea of BB round used for home defense doesn't really bother me too much. It's likely a better choice than a .380. A BB round to the head will likely be ad deadly as a .380 to the head...if the .380 breaks through the skull, I've seen so many 9mm rounds fail to do that. The shear blunt force trauma of the BB round to the brain bucket is devastating. Many handgun hits should be considered "less lethal" since they are dismally effective at actually stopping someone.

 

[drop45]

Someone broke into my house one night and I confronted him in the kitchen. All I had to defend myself was some fruit in a bowl on the table. The first two pieces I threw at him were the plastic ones because I didn't want to risk hurting him. He dropped to the floor in laughter due to my choice of self defense. I was able to keep him there with a feather duster inches from his face until the po po arrived seconds later. Really, I swear.

 

[Denny347]

Someone broke into my house one night and I confronted him in the kitchen. All I had to defend myself was some fruit in a bowl on the table. The first two pieces I threw at him were the plastic ones because I didn't want to risk hurting him. He dropped to the floor in laughter due to my choice of self defense. I was able to keep him there with a feather duster inches from his face until the po po arrived seconds later. Really, I swear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=805t_qFTgy8

 

[Car Ramrod]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=805t_qFTgy8

Was that filmed with a potato?

 

[chezuki]

Was that filmed with a potato?

 

[Denny347]

Was that filmed with a potato?

It's a series of drawn sketches put together in a flip pad...forming a movie...

 

[cp009]

[video=youtube_share;iPAKLufeil4]http://youtu.be/iPAKLufeil4[/video]

If someone enters my home they will be met with lethal force. I will not give them a chance with the hopes of a less lethal round stopping them.

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

Well, looks like the OP got what he wanted.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Legally, it would be viewed the same. Rubber buckshot is still lethal force as defined by IC, as it causes the risk of serious bodily injury or death when used as intended. It would also bring up the question on if you have been trained on how to use less lethal ammunition properly should a civil suit result.

To be frank, I understand the desire to end the confrontation without the burden of killing someone. However just be sure you truly understand the risks you are adding, both to your own safety and in a civil suit (criminally it'll be same/same).

 

[VERT]

Leave it to BBI to ruin a good thread with a well thought out, logical answer. Shame on you!!!

 

[Burnsy]

Legally, it would be viewed the same. Rubber buckshot is still lethal force as defined by IC, as it causes the risk of serious bodily injury or death when used as intended. It would also bring up the question on if you have been trained on how to use less lethal ammunition properly should a civil suit result.

To be frank, I understand the desire to end the confrontation without the burden of killing someone. However just be sure you truly understand the risks you are adding, both to your own safety and in a civil suit (criminally it'll be same/same).

I don't. I don't want to do anyone any harm but that changes when me or my family are put in danger of death or great bodily harm. I didn't start it, I didn't ask for it and I didn't break down anyone's door. Let's assume a shotgun is in used self defense in a home invasion. In my opinion there is no, none at all reason, zero logic in using anything less than the best possible force to stop that attack. Be that buckshot, a slug or a sabot.

The reason I am pointing a shotgun at someone inside my home is because they have broken in and mean to cause me or my family death or great bodily harm. If they didn't intend that, I would expect that they would be on their way out. If they kept advancing, I mean to stop the attack. So my best chance to stop that from happening is with the best tools I have.

This means I need to use the most effective means of force. I don't care if they die, live, run away or what ever, I mean to stop it. I don't carry any burden with any of those results. I didn't make the choice, they made me choose for them.

Using rubber anything projectiles means I wasn't afraid for mine or my families life or great bodily harm. If the attack denotes a firearm, it means the attack needs to end now and I need to be sure of it, the aftermath is not my concern.

Rubber rounds were originally intended for crowd and riot control, they "might" work in self defense situations but my life and my wife's life in an attack are not riot control situations in our home (at least I hope) and I will not put any weight in "might" as much as I can help it. I mean to stop the attacker with as much violent force as I can muster. They made their choice, and forced mine. I will not feel sorry about what happens to him or her after the event is over.

If the attacker does meet his maker, I did not intend to kill, I indented to stop the attack as effectively as I could. There will be no burden.

OP: The legal implications will be you shot at someone when you were afraid for your life with bean bag rounds. Use critical thinking and you will arrive at your answer.

 

[BigMoose]

I never could decide what loads to run in my shotgun...... but I knew I wanted something LETHAL. RUBBER?

So I got some "kitchen sink" shells.

12 Gauge 2 3/4" Kitchen Sink - 5 Rounds

 

[OakRiver]

"Sir, why did you use a firearm?"
" Well Officer I felt that my life was in danger"
"Ok Sir, so you're saying that you were in fear of imminent harm to you or a loved one?"
"Yes"
"Could you please explain to me why you felt your life was in danger, yet you used less than lethal rounds?"
"Ummm..."

 

[BiscuitNaBasket]

"Sir, why did you use a firearm?"
" Well Officer I felt that my life was in danger"
"Ok Sir, so you're saying that you were in fear of imminent harm to you or a loved one?"
"Yes"
"Could you please explain to me why you felt your life was in danger, yet you used less than lethal rounds?"
"Ummm..."

yeah... that's pretty much how I'd expect that conversation to unfold.

 

[calcot7]

This x100.

As for legality, you have to be justified in using deadly force regardless of the round you use. If the situation warrants deadly force to resolve, there is no sense in *****-footing around trying to "work your way up" to stopping them. 00 Buck.

....until the threat is stopped.

 

[calcot7]

Oooooooh! Birdybuckball says it all.

I never could decide what loads to run in my shotgun...... but I knew I wanted something LETHAL. RUBBER?

So I got some "kitchen sink" shells.

12 Gauge 2 3/4" Kitchen Sink - 5 Rounds

 

[OakRiver]

The only less than lethal round you should be applied to your "rifle" is a condom. If your life is in danger respond appropriately.

 

[jsharmon7]

The only non-lethal thing you're likely to get from my shotgun is a muzzle punch to the teeth.

This still wins...