Red Dot for M&P PC 9L

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  • Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 10, 2018
    139
    22
    Indy Northside
    Recently picked up a Performance Center 9L CORE with suppressor height sights. Have been researching red dot sights and info is all over the board regarding quality, ability to cowitness irons, value, etc. Anybody have a recommendation to make? Purpose will be mostly a range toy. Many thanks for augmenting my lacking Googlefu skills.
     

    Vigilant

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    21   0   0
    Jul 12, 2008
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    Plainfield
    Don’t know where you’ve been looking/reading, but the Trijicon RMR is king of the red dots as far as handguns go, durability, battery life, co witness, etc. everything else thus far is an also ran.
     
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Oct 10, 2018
    139
    22
    Indy Northside
    Don’t know where you’ve been looking/reading, but the Trijicon RMR is king of the red dots as far as handguns go, durability, battery life, co witness, etc. everything else thus far is an also ran.

    Yeah, have looked into the RMR Type 2 and can stretch the budget that far. Didn't know if options like the Vortex Venom 3.25MOA was viable at about half the cost. Thx for the help.
     

    Vigilant

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    21   0   0
    Jul 12, 2008
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    Yeah, have looked into the RMR Type 2 and can stretch the budget that far. Didn't know if options like the Vortex Venom 3.25MOA was viable at about half the cost. Thx for the help.
    Nothing “wrong” with them, they just aren’t the RMR, if it’s a range toy, no problem, but a defensive or duty arm, no ****ing way.
     

    NHT3

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    39   0   0
    Apr 12, 2009
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    South of the 465 loop
    IF you consider a Trijicon RMR (I wouldn't) be certain you the the 2nd gen. I had a first gen RMR that I returned twice and it still didn't work.
    Leupold Delta point pro is the only red dot that the Army tested that didn't fail if what I read is correct. I've had a Delta point on a pistol that I carry daily for about a year and it works fine. I have another pistol with a Vortex Venom that I compete with and carry at times and I prefer that red dot over the Leupold. My advice would be look at all of them and pick the one that you see the best.
    [FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright [/FONT]
     

    Vigilant

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    21   0   0
    Jul 12, 2008
    11,658
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    Plainfield
    C
    IF you consider a Trijicon RMR (I wouldn't) be certain you the the 2nd gen. I had a first gen RMR that I returned twice and it still didn't work.
    Leupold Delta point pro is the only red dot that the Army tested that didn't fail if what I read is correct. I've had a Delta point on a pistol that I carry daily for about a year and it works fine. I have another pistol with a Vortex Venom that I compete with and carry at times and I prefer that red dot over the Leupold. My advice would be look at all of them and pick the one that you see the best.
    [FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright [/FONT]
    NSWC Crane, and SOCOM seem to disagree, as Trijicon was awarded the sole contract for the HRS. DP’s are good, but not RMR good yet. These guys get whatever they want.
     
    Last edited:

    NHT3

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    39   0   0
    Apr 12, 2009
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    Just relating my personal experience and wondering if you've ever owned one? Bought a new RMR at Elmore's and it didn't work out of the box. Took a month for Trijicon to "repair" it and it only worked intermittently after the repair even though they assured me they "tested it extensively". The RMR-2 had just been introduced and I requested that as a replacement but was refused and told I should return it again for repair. That was 6 weeks into my ownership and it had been in my hands a week. In my little world that customer service sucks. A friend commented that if it was as tough as they claim they wouldn't ship it in something suitable to keep an egg safe:n00b: and he's spot on.

    Google Trijicon RMR problems and there's no shortage of responses..
    [FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright [/FONT]
     
    Last edited:

    MC1983

    Plinker
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    3   0   0
    Jan 21, 2014
    60
    0
    Indianapolis
    I believe the Vortex Venom is too tall to cowitness with suppressor sights. The Vortex Viper Will cowitness but in order to change the battery, the red dot needs to be removed from the slide.
     

    Vigilant

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 100%
    21   0   0
    Jul 12, 2008
    11,658
    83
    Plainfield
    Just relating my personal experience and wondering if you've ever owned one? Bought a new RMR at Elmore's and it didn't work out of the box. Took a month for Trijicon to "repair" it and it only worked intermittently even though they assured me they "tested it extensively". The RMR-2 had just been introduced and I requested that as a replacement but was refused and told I should return it again for repair. That was 6 weeks into my ownership and it had been in my hands a week. In my little world that customer service sucks. A friend commented that if it was as tough as they claim they wouldn't ship it in something suitable to keep an egg safe:n00b: and he's spot on.

    Google Trijicon RMR problems and there's no shortage of responses..
    [FONT=&amp]NRA Life Member / [/FONT]Basic Pistol instructor[FONT=&amp] / RSO[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]"Under pressure, you don't rise to the occasion, you sink to the level of your training. That's why we train so hard" [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Unnamed Navy Seal[/FONT][FONT=&amp]

    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]“Ego is the reason many men do not shoot competition. They don't want to suck in public” [/FONT][FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&amp]
    [/FONT][FONT=&amp]Aron Bright [/FONT]
    Ive currently got 3 RM06’s 2 Gen1’s and one Gen2HRS. One of the Gen1’s has been running since 2014. It was sent back for “dot flicker” came back and has run since. I did add anti flicker plates to both Gen 1’s just in case. The Gen 2 only has about 2K through it, but is going strong. I rack these sights off of belts, holsters, boots, I do not treat them gently. I even accidentally dropped one on the pavement once. Of course it landed butter side down, all it did was chip the owl ear on the corner.
     

    Tactically Fat

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    22   0   0
    Oct 8, 2014
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    OP: Look up the Sage Dynamics page on Youtube. Aaron Cowan's work should be considered akin to Gospel when it comes to putting MRDS on a pistol.
     

    Vigilant

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    21   0   0
    Jul 12, 2008
    11,658
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    Plainfield
    OP: Look up the Sage Dynamics page on Youtube. Aaron Cowan's work should be considered akin to Gospel when it comes to putting MRDS on a pistol.
    With a quote like “this is THE most durable sight on the market today”, I feel vindicated in choosing this over the DP Pro. I’ve trained with Aaron, and he helped me through my difficulties picking up the dot. I’m totally sold on the RMR, 1st and 2nd Gen. After the first trip back for “flicker” my original RMR has kept on keepin on. The Gen 2 HRS is that much better. Aaron has spent the last few years on this topic, I’ve been RMR’d longer, as I jumped on the Suarez RMR bandwagon several years before Sage became relevant. Despite what people say or think about Suarez, he actually brought it to the forefront. Kelly McCann aka Jim Grover was probably the first to actively USE a red dot on a combat pistol, outside of the bullet golfers. But Mcann and later Suarez, made it what it is today.
     

    Tactically Fat

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    Cowan has also accepted the DPP and a couple of the Holosun models as "duty rated", too.

    But when you can get a Type2 RMR for $400 (if you wait on sales / private party) - may as well get an RMR for $400 vs. a Holosun for $350.

    I hope one day I can train under Cowan and/or Scott Jedlinski. Heck, even take another Steve Fisher class.
     

    Vigilant

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    21   0   0
    Jul 12, 2008
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    Cowan has also accepted the DPP and a couple of the Holosun models as "duty rated", too.

    But when you can get a Type2 RMR for $400 (if you wait on sales / private party) - may as well get an RMR for $400 vs. a Holosun for $350.

    I hope one day I can train under Cowan and/or Scott Jedlinski. Heck, even take another Steve Fisher class.
    The Holosun WILL BREAK. I tried a 507C for a hot minute. Racking it off of everyday things bent the housing and shattered the glass. It went back, they replaced it, it now resides on a non-SD firearm for plinking ONLY. I have never owned a DP or DP Pro, because the battery life sucked on the OG’s, so maybe, but RMRs remain the gold standard, and I like gold.
     

    T-DOGG

    I'm Spicy, deal with it.
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    The Holosun WILL BREAK. I tried a 507C for a hot minute. Racking it off of everyday things bent the housing and shattered the glass. It went back, they replaced it, it now resides on a non-SD firearm for plinking ONLY. I have never owned a DP or DP Pro, because the battery life sucked on the OG’s, so maybe, but RMRs remain the gold standard, and I like gold.
    How many times did you rack it off everyday things before it broke? What are your everyday things?
     

    Vigilant

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    How many times did you rack it off everyday things before it broke? What are your everyday things?
    As far as a number, lots, shoes, boots, belts, holsters, belt buckles,shooting benches, global thermonuclear weapons, you know the normal stuff. Same stuff I racked my RMRs off of. The RMRs chipped and dinged, the Holosun bent and broke, it’s a good sight and I got it right, but it’s not a serious use peice of kit in my opinion. YMMV. The custom slide racking also didn’t do the solar panel much good. I did really like the Holosun’s reticle though.
     

    phylodog

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    58   0   0
    Mar 7, 2008
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    I went with the US Optics MCRS over the RMR but only because it would co-witness with standard sights. I have a serious dislike for suppressor height sights after running an RMR on a pistol. I'm not convinced it'll hold up like the RMR will but my days of beating on my equipment at work are over so it'll have a relatively easy life. If it does break USO is saying it's warrantied forever so I'm not too concerned about something going wrong.
     

    T-DOGG

    I'm Spicy, deal with it.
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    As far as a number, lots, shoes, boots, belts, holsters, belt buckles,shooting benches, global thermonuclear weapons, you know the normal stuff. Same stuff I racked my RMRs off of. The RMRs chipped and dinged, the Holosun bent and broke, it’s a good sight and I got it right, but it’s not a serious use peice of kit in my opinion. YMMV. The custom slide racking also didn’t do the solar panel much good. I did really like the Holosun’s reticle though.
    I guess I just learned what serious use is considered. I thought Aaron Cowan dropping his on the concrete repeatedly was a bit intense. I understand the idea for maybe some R&D, but really wonder what percentage of people will use their reflex sight in that fashion, that many times, versus the traditional method of racking the slide with their support hand or the slide release (malfunction clearing excluded). To clarify, I'm not saying I disagree with using the optic in that fashion, just don't understand abusing it repeatedly until it breaks. But, I also don't know you or how you train, so maybe you just train alot and like to practice that method of slide racking frequently. I would think the average consumer isn't going to use their optic like that. Just my opinion.
     

    Vigilant

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    Jul 12, 2008
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    I guess I just learned what serious use is considered. I thought Aaron Cowan dropping his on the concrete repeatedly was a bit intense. I understand the idea for maybe some R&D, but really wonder what percentage of people will use their reflex sight in that fashion, that many times, versus the traditional method of racking the slide with their support hand or the slide release (malfunction clearing excluded). To clarify, I'm not saying I disagree with using the optic in that fashion, just don't understand abusing it repeatedly until it breaks. But, I also don't know you or how you train, so maybe you just train alot and like to practice that method of slide racking frequently. I would think the average consumer isn't going to use their optic like that. Just my opinion.
    Hey now, that’s not my everyday routine, but when I go to the range, I play the extremes. I generally purchase multiples of the same item to wring one out, use one, and have a reserve. The Holosun didn’t make it for me. I have one beat to **** RMR, and two healthy, though used, RMRs. Only bought the one Holosun as I got it for $250, won’t be buying multiples.
     

    T-DOGG

    I'm Spicy, deal with it.
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    Hey now, that’s not my everyday routine, but when I go to the range, I play the extremes. I generally purchase multiples of the same item to wring one out, use one, and have a reserve. The Holosun didn’t make it for me. I have one beat to **** RMR, and two healthy, though used, RMRs. Only bought the one Holosun as I got it for $250, won’t be buying multiples.
    Appreciate the insight. I bought a 407C (dot only) to try out on my G19, but I don't use any of my gear hard at all, so I doubt I'll ever break it. I've hard an RMR in the past, just not sure I want to commit the training time into going that route again for a carry gun or HD gun. Thank you for a different perspective.
     
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