Recommended gear for a carbine class?

[akaindy]

Besides the loss of zero, bad battery box design, Eotechs also have a low battery life compared to Aimpoints.

 

[rhino]

I get at least three votes on the EOTech issue based on mass.

No on can argue that the Aimpoint technology rules the bus in terms of battery life. No one else is even close.

Few would choose to argue against the fact that the Aimpoint is a more rugged and durable product if you compare 1000 of each unit over time.

However, I will argue the following:

• EOTech battery life with AA lithiums is adequate for my needs, especially if I change them occasionally.
• Adding the cost of mounting hardware (and we all know you can't feel good about yourself unless your Aimpoint is in a Larue mount, right?), the up-front cost of the EOTech is significantly less. This is an issue for some people.
• I prefer the simplicity being able to attach my red dot directly to the rail without extra hardware being necessary. I know the M4, M4S, and the T-1/H-1 have built-in mounts, but people still get additional Larue mounts for them too.
• In terms of a shooting tool (all other issues aside), I get better results with an EOTech than with an Aimpoint. I like the donut and dot reticle pattern. If that was available on an Aimpoint, I'd probably bite the bullet, save some extra money, and get one.
• The new model with the CR123A battery mounted across the axis of the bore should eliminate most if not all of the battery/connections issues that have plagued some EOTechs.

 

[Gaudard]

I'm planning on taking the ACT class in October. Came across this thread and seen some useful information.

I'm specifically looking for recommendations for magazine carriers and dump pouches.

The class is a one day, defensive carbine class so I don't know that I need anything super fancy but would like to use quality items that will last me and hopefully be useful for future classes.

Thanks!

 

[shooter521]

I'm planning on taking the ACT class in October. Came across this thread and seen some useful information.

And thanks for bringing it back to the top. Sometimes, necroposts are actually worth it.

I'm specifically looking for recommendations for magazine carriers and dump pouches.

If you want to carry carbine mags on your belt, any company that works in Kydex will be able to hook you up. Raven Concealment is an INGO Advertiser and makes a great product, but lead times might be an issue. Otherwise, look at RM Holster Works, Blade-Tech or Comp-Tac. I've used products from all of them and have been pleased. Or if you really want to go simple and cheap, there's the Mk 1 Mod 0 Pants Pocket.

Dump pouches - I use a Maxpedition Rolly Poly. It works, it's fairly inexpensive, and I like that it folds up when not in use.

 

[Tom Fineis]

Here's my take:

Define your goal for the class. What event are you training for?

- Civilian?
- An encounter on the street with your pistol?
- A SHTF scenario where you have your rifle?

- LE?

- MIL?

Choose the carriage system that you would use in a real world scenario. Civvies may have a go bag, or a chest rig, or belt pouches, or magazines in pockets. LE may have a go bag, a chest rig, or a full blown armor carrier. MIL obviously would have the most kit.

I'm not a fan of war belts. Most of our warfighters don't even use them. The average joe who uses one as a 'class rig' is training himself on a system he/she will probably never use. Retention holsters and huge fixed blade knives all look cool, but most are extremely impractical for the average civilian.

For pistol classes, I wear what I wear every day. My IWB holster, and my dual magazine carrier. If I need more mags for longer running drills, I'll toss a few in my pockets to backfill my belt pouch.

For rifle classes, I run a mag cinch and go bag or belt pouches, as I'm most likely to have those if I ever use a rifle defensively or offensively. I also run a chest rig once in a while, since I own one and it is part of my 'go-kit,' if I have time to grab it.

There are multiple reasons to take a training class, I just wish people were more honest with themselves. People who say they are there to gain skills for concealed carry use, yet never draw from concealment are missing the point. This situation is extremely common in classes.

I devote at least 90% of my training time and money to pistol oriented classes. I'm a civilian who carries a pistol every day. I am proficient with a rifle, and practice/compete with one often, but in the end it's the pistol skills that are more likely to save my life. If I'm spending my resources on a class, I want one that is most similar to the situations I may find myself in.

What it really boils down to is a lot of guy go to class to have fun and look cool. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but most people refuse to admit that is why they're there.

All that said, my class list is:

- The gear I am most likely to use
- More ammo than the class calls for
- More magazines than I think I'll need
- Backup guns
- Tools and parts
- Lots of food and water
- A full change of clothes

 

[lovemachine]

I'm taking this class as well. Due to funds, I'm getting the bare minimum. HAVE to get the mags and sling. I'd like to get the mag pouches from Comp-tac. I really like the pistol mag pouches I bought from them.

 

[rhino]

I'm planning on taking the ACT class in October. Came across this thread and seen some useful information.

I'm specifically looking for recommendations for magazine carriers and dump pouches.

The class is a one day, defensive carbine class so I don't know that I need anything super fancy but would like to use quality items that will last me and hopefully be useful for future classes.

Thanks!

You definitely will not need anything super fancy, or so the instructor has led me to believe.

For mag carriers, I think you're best choice are the injection molded AR mag carriers from Blade-Tech:

Injection Molded AR-15/M16 Pouches :: Rifle Mag Pouch & Accessories :: Blade-Tech Industries


Here is why I like them:

• Sturdy and functional, especially with the new version of the Tek-Lok. The new Tek-Lok is good.
• Ambidextrous ... this is important for newer rifle operators for a reason that some don't consider. When you put mags on your belt, you're going to have a choice of placing them with bullets forward or bullets to the rear. Both have advantages and disadvantages, but you won't know how you want to do it until you'd had to use them a while under some externally imposed stress. The Blade-Tech injection molded pouches let you put AR magazines into them in either orientation on either side of your belt.
• Easily adjustable for tension (not usually possible with nylon).
• They don't take too much belt space.
• Not expensive ($24.95 currently, but they have sales frequently)
• Quick delivery; Blade-Tech can have some delays on custom molded items, but they're usually pretty good about getting the injection molded gear to you quickly, or some other vendors may have them in stock.

A dump pouch won't hurt any, but I wouldn't worry too much over it. A Maxpedition RolyPoly will work nicely. I can't remember the brand of the huge one I use, but if you send email to me to remind me, I'll try to find out.

Consider also how you will be using the dump pouch. If it's literally to dump gear in a hurry, it's a little different than using one to carry extra gear. I've used one for each purpose in the past. The big one for dropping mags and other gear, and the RolyPoly for carrying loaded mags, from which I replenish my magazine carriers on my belt.

You could also just put mags in your pockets. I know some people who train that way because that's how they expect to do it if they need to use their rifle for something serious. I sometimes wear a Wilderness single AR mag pouch on my belt (empty) in case I need to have something to store a spare mag. I don't like it as much as the Blade-Tech pouches, but you don't notice it on your belt if it's not being used either.

 

[Gaudard]

My goals for the class include:

Become more proficient with my rifle.
See other gear and get ideas.
Have fun shooting!

For my equipment needs are for classes which I think will meet my needs and SHTF.

As for the dump pouch, I think I would use it for tactical reloads and empties. It makes since that using it for new mags is a bad practice, if I'm tossing old ones in it. But hanging on to old ones seems like that would be something I should be doing, rather than trying to pick them up. I think I'll make a discussion thread on it :-)

 

[Citronman1980]

I'd like to bring this back from the dead due to the upcoming carbine class in August. Its given me a good starting point on different options I might want to possibly bring.

 

[abnk]

esrice, a lot will depend on why you taking the course. If you are taking it to acquire marksmanship skills, take a minimalist approach. If you are a strong shooter and want to try your gear, then bring all you want to try.

On the Cammelback, I never brought one. You likely won't be on the shooting line for more than 15 minutes at a time.

 

[esrice]

esrice, a lot will depend on why you taking the course.

lol, this thread is so old that I've got several more classes under my belt.

But good topic nonetheless!

 

[abnk]

lol, this thread is so old

I fell victim to the thread reanimator.

 

[esrice]

I fell victim to the thread reanimator.

It happens.

 

[Citronman1980]

lol, this thread is so old that I've got several more classes under my belt.

Knowing what you know now, how would you spec yourself out for your first carbine class?

 

[esrice]

Knowing what you know now, how would you spec yourself out for your first carbine class?

Very good question. Here are my random thoughts.

Of course your basics like earpro, eyepro, hat, sunscreen, rain gear, water, lube, tools, and extra batteries always apply.

You'll want a reliable secondary weapon system (handgun) with a suitable holster and a way to carry 1 or 2 additional magazines.

I'm always a fan of redundancy, so an extra handgun and another type of ammo is always a good idea. An extra carbine and another type of carbine ammo wouldn't hurt either, if its available. This becomes even more important when taking expensive courses, when you really need your time to count. There's nothing worse than spending $$$ on a course where you spend the majority of your time fixing your gun or diagnosing ammo issues (been there ).

I would also recommend pre-loading as many magazines as possible. We jammed 1,200 rounds into PMAGs prior to class, which allowed us (Dad and I) to focus on the class during downtimes, rather than be preoccupied with reloading magazines. Obviously this requires having a lot of magazines, but you'd be amazed at what tiny bits of information you pick up while the instructor is teaching the opposite relay. It also affords you ample time to eat a small snack and hydrate, hydrate, hydrate.

If at all possible, come to class with your carbine zeroed. Yes, in a basic class they will cover zeroing and give you the opportunity to do it there on the line, but having your carbine zeroed from the start certainly speeds things up for everyone. This goes for both irons and optics.

Arrive to class early. Nothing is worse than being the last guy to show up and having to frantically rush to get all your cool guy gear on. That's when mistakes happen and that could lead to a potential safety issue later on in class. Show up early, take it easy, and relax.

For your first class you'll need a way to carry spare carbine magazines on your person. Typical methods are belt carriers, chest rigs, bandoleers, or sneaky bags. Guys wishing to stay practical might even use their back pockets, if that's how they see themselves fighting.

Like anything else, gear and training evolve. I started out using an Eagle chest rig, but now run an Eagle bandoleer. The chest rig worked great in class, but wasn't very practical. The bandoleer gives up a few things in "comfort" but reaps benefits in "practicality". You'll need to find out what works best for you, and a carbine class is a great place to start figuring that out.

I'm also a fan of gloves for carbine work. They'll save you from the general bumps and scrapes that come with running an AR. They can also help keep the barrel heat at bay during longer strings of fire.

Above all else, always bring an open mind to class. If you do this, the rest can be worked out.