Question about church carry

[mrbunky]

I am a deacon at a local church in Southern Indiana the deacons are allowed to carry concealed handgun's if they have a license my question is this if one of our deacons suspects that someone visiting our church is carrying a handgun do We have the right to ask to see their license and their concealed carry permit or does there have to be some type of probable cause any help you could give me on the matter would be greatly appreciated. I feel that we do not but some say we do Because it is private property

 

[possum_128]

If you are not leo then it's none of your business. Oh, and we don't have any stinking concealed carry permits in Indiana. If anyone asks to see my handgun license and are not a law dog I will tell them to go pound sand.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

What he said. I always carry in church. It's my god given right. Besides our pastor welcomes this.

 

[jagee]

My church is a school so I can't carry there, otherwise I would...and if I were asked to present my license I would politely ask "why?" and explain that I don't gotta show you nuffin!

 

[Thegeek]

So you elevate yourself and think it's okay for you to carry, but not your parishioners? Pound sand! You have not right to ask them anything but to leave.

 

[mrbunky]

No the geek I'm trying to talk legal sense to them
And no one has tried to put their self above anywhere else

 

[SteveM4A1]

No the geek I'm trying to talk legal sense to them
And no one has tried to put their self above anywhere else

What legal sense are you trying to talk to them? They can legally carry in a church with a LTCH, where there are no other restricting conditions present.

 

[PaulF]

As private property you have the right to ask anyone to leave for any reason, or no reason at all.

If your church wishes your parish to attend services unarmed it is your right to ask them to do so.

-It is your right to secure your premesis against unwanted visitors, armed or otherwise.
-It is your right to expel unwanted visitors.
-It is your right to arm your deacons.

Why does this armed parishioner frighten you?

 

[Expat]

Why do people hate private property rights?

 

[mrbunky]

It does not bother me a bit it's just paranoia on the behalf of the higher ups

 

[eldirector]

You have the "right" to ask your parishioners for about anything. As one private citizen to another, they have the right to refuse. At which point, you can let it drop, or ask them to leave or be trespassed. Really no way to compel someone to give you private information, or to turn over their government ID. Well, short of denying services.

If you suspect someone is carrying illegally, I would suggest letting law enforcement handle it. On the off chance that a criminal had a gun in your church, do you really think they will simply hand over ID?

 

[russc2542]

^Beat me to it while I was typing.

I'll play the optimist and say I think what mrbunky is asking is if he suspects someone is carrying, can/should he confirm they have a LTCH and are not carrying illegally.

You can ask, legally, but the sentiment seems to be that you're overstepping your civic duty, to put it politely. Legally, I can't imagine there's a darn thing you can do about it if they are carrying illegally. Sort of like if you see someone speeding, you can call LEO to do something about it but if you do anything yourself, you get in trouble for trying to be a vigilante. If there are further laws involved, like school on church premises (which I don't think is the case since you say you can carry), again you should report it to the LEOs to handle.

Lets think about this rationally for a second. You suspect someone is armed without LTCH. Do you really want to confront someone who is already showing disdain for the law while they're armed? Pretty sure that's called escalating the situation.

 

[PaulF]

It does not bother me a bit it's just paranoia on the behalf of the higher ups

That is why I asked...

It seems to me that this is a "teachable moment" for the higher-ups. Guns in holster shouldn't frighten anyone, especially on the hip of a trusted parishioner.

 

[eldirector]

It does not bother me a bit it's just paranoia on the behalf of the higher ups

Oh, I doubt the "higher up" is paranoid. At. All.

 

[mom45]

Are they going to ask everyone entering the church if they are carrying? Will they be searching purses? Metal detectors? I would be quite offended if someone singled me out and asked if I was carrying, and have to say if I even thought this was being considered at my church, I would be switching to another where I felt more comfortable attending.

 

[Expat]

Concealed is concealed. Tell the possible carrier that he needs to step up his game a little bit.
My church doesnt have an official policy that I am aware of. I carry every Sunday, but it is truly concealed.

 

[Bapak2ja]

Concealed is concealed. Tell the possible carrier that he needs to step up his game a little bit.
My church doesnt have an official policy that I am aware of. I carry every Sunday, but it is truly concealed.

Wisdom.

 

[frenchiectfd2203]

+1 ^
|

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Does your church have a policy about its members and visitors carrying firearms while on church property? Do the members know it? If it's that important to your church leaders, why not take a more lightly treading way and post it conspicuously in your Sunday church bulletin, affix a sign to your doors, post it on your website, and things of that sort?

I have no idea if mine has such a policy. I don't think they do or don't care. It's never been mentioned but I have seen a person or two either OC or accidently OC. And I know several others that have "indicated" they carry on previous occassions.

 

[Bill of Rights]

You have the "right" to ask your parishioners for about anything. As one private citizen to another, they have the right to refuse. At which point, you can let it drop, or ask them to leave or be trespassed. Really no way to compel someone to give you private information, or to turn over their government ID. Well, short of denying services.

If you suspect someone is carrying illegally, I would suggest letting law enforcement handle it. On the off chance that a criminal had a gun in your church, do you really think they will simply hand over ID?

Rep added. Absolute gold. Couldn't have said it better.

You have the right to ask, they have the right to tell you, well, pretty much anything they want to, though not without repercussion (a la trespassing)

Conversely, LEOs do not have a "right" to ask for the LTCH, but they have the power and authority to do so. Important distinction there.

And yes, this is a good teachable moment for the church leadership.

Blessings,
Bill