Police Car in School Zone

[steveh_131]

Marines are proud to be Marines.
Firemen are proud to be Firemen.
Masons are proud to be Masons.
Jews are proud to be Jews.
The list of people who are proud of their particular organization/religion/ethnic group/profession/etc is endless.
It doesn't make them elitist.
It makes them part of a group that instills pride in it's members.

I'm proud to be an electrical engineer.

But it doesn't define who I am. I don't consider it my identity as a human being. I think there's a pretty distinct difference here.

Now if you're a guy like Denny, who probably wanted to be a cop so that he could help people, it can be a good thing. He now defines himself as that and I think the world is a better place for it.

But some people want to be cops because they want to exert their authority over people. And if that becomes who they are, then their authority could become absolute and imperative in their minds, hence the elitism. And this could be part of what leads to the abuses that take place.

This leads me to wonder if it's necessarily a good thing for the police force to have this sort of attitude about itself.

 

[littletommy]

You have to know the secret handshake and gang signs first.

Elitist!

 

[VUPDblue]

So cops shouldn't be proud to be cops?

 

[cordex]

It's hard for me to understand a real need for automatically reducing speed limits around schools.

Most of the new schools I see being built are set well back from the road. Students are rarely let outside, and when they are, they tend to be way back behind the school or corralled behind fences and supervised.

Not to sound callous, but whatever insignificant safety benefit there may be (in most cases) for drastically reducing speed limits is more than offset by the dangers of sudden and inconsistent changes in speed limits.

That said, if the officer didn't have a valid reason to be violating traffic laws in the course of his duty, he should have paid more attention to the school zone.

Funny aside: a school near me has a very large, empty, grass field between the road and the school. That field is typically unused during the course of the school day, but serves as a practice field for sports ... only after the school zone speed limit is lifted.

 

[UncleMike]

So cops shouldn't be proud to be cops?

No!
We should hang our heads in shame because, out of the over 850,000 LEO's in this country, a dozen or so do something to bring shame on the rest of the Profession every year.
Thus making every LEO a corrupt/jackbooting/elitist/scum.

 

[steveh_131]

So cops shouldn't be proud to be cops?

It's clear that you didn't bother to read what I wrote.

No!
We should hang our heads in shame because, out of the over 850,000 LEO's in this country, a dozen or so do something to bring shame on the rest of the Profession every year.
Thus making every LEO a corrupt/jackbooting/elitist/scum.

And neither did you.

 

[steveh_131]

I'm not talking at all about being proud of what you do.

I'm talking about the institutional mentality that it defines who you are. I don't know that it's necessarily a bad thing. I'm wondering, however, if it leads to more abuses among people who allow it to create an elitist and authoritarian persona for themselves.

 

[jsharmon7]

I'm not talking at all about being proud of what you do.

I'm talking about the institutional mentality that it defines who you are. I don't know that it's necessarily a bad thing. I'm wondering, however, if it leads to more abuses among people who allow it to create an elitist and authoritarian persona for themselves.

Some cops do feel that it's "who they are" just as some firemen feel that being a fireman is "who they are." I'm sure there are a good amount of teachers out there that feel being a teacher is "who they are." These are the types of jobs you get into because it's all you can see yourself doing, it's all that makes sense to you. Nobody is scanning the Want Ads and thinks, eh I could apply for that fireman position until something better comes along. You either have the desire to run into burning buildings for a living or you don't. Same thing, in my opinion, for police and teachers. I truly feel like these types of jobs are a personality trait rather than a career choice. As far as being a good thing or bad, that's a completely individual reaction. There is nothing in law enforcement that makes someone become a good person or bad person. Anyone who behaves in the manner that you describe has most likely had that in them all along.

 

[steveh_131]

Some cops do feel that it's "who they are" just as some firemen feel that being a fireman is "who they are." I'm sure there are a good amount of teachers out there that feel being a teacher is "who they are." These are the types of jobs you get into because it's all you can see yourself doing, it's all that makes sense to you. Nobody is scanning the Want Ads and thinks, eh I could apply for that fireman position until something better comes along. You either have the desire to run into burning buildings for a living or you don't. Same thing, in my opinion, for police and teachers. I truly feel like these types of jobs are a personality trait rather than a career choice. As far as being a good thing or bad, that's a completely individual reaction. There is nothing in law enforcement that makes someone become a good person or bad person. Anyone who behaves in the manner that you describe has most likely had that in them all along.

I can see your point here. Although I think a lot of careers have a lot to do with personality. I chose engineering because it matched my personality and my interests, and with the college required it certainly wasn't an impulse. But it seems like there's something more to it in the case of a fireman or cop. Perhaps it's the dangers involved. Something that creates a different atmosphere, and it seems to me (looking in from the outside) that it allows a bit of an elitist attitude to flourish in some of them. NOT all of them, let me be clear on that.

Am I way off base here? Or is this type of attitude possibly contributing to some of the abuses that do take place?

 

[jsharmon7]

I can see your point here. Although I think a lot of careers have a lot to do with personality. I chose engineering because it matched my personality and my interests, and with the college required it certainly wasn't an impulse. But it seems like there's something more to it in the case of a fireman or cop. Perhaps it's the dangers involved. Something that creates a different atmosphere, and it seems to me (looking in from the outside) that it allows a bit of an elitist attitude to flourish in some of them. NOT all of them, let me be clear on that.

Am I way off base here? Or is this type of attitude possibly contributing to some of the abuses that do take place?

Sure, lots of careers do have a lot to do with personality traits. You may really enjoy the thought processes and challenges of engineering and find it supremely interesting. Firefighters don't necessarily "enjoy" the idea of running into a burning building, but their desire to save lives and help others makes it worth the risk. Not too many officers grew up thinking about how cool it would be to get called all day long to go solve everybody else's personal problems. The high points of the job and the desire to help others and do your best to improve your community make it all worthwhile though. In my opinion, Denny would be what I consider one of the better officers out there. The fact that he feels that law enforcement is "who he is" probably helps to make him that way. It's like saying that the best engineers are the ones who really put themselves wholeheartedly into their work.

As I said before, the arrogant, elitist officers out there have always been that way, the authority of the job just gives them the opportunity to "enforce" it. I see arrogant, elitist people everywhere, not just in law enforcement. The difference is the authority granted to officers give that elitism more legal weight than, say, an arrogant businessman. If you run across an arrogant businessman you can ignore him and move on. If you're stopped by an arrogant cop, you're stuck with him/her for the 5-10 minutes it takes to conduct that traffic stop. I've known an arrogant cop or two but I can assure you that they were that way before LE.

EDIT: I just want to be clear that I'm speaking ONLY for myself. I'm not saying that all LEO feel that way.

 

[public servant]

So cops shouldn't be proud to be cops?

Shut up peasant!

 

[public servant]

Funny aside: a school near me has a very large, empty, grass field between the road and the school. That field is typically unused during the course of the school day, but serves as a practice field for sports ... only after the school zone speed limit is lifted.

Is this by chance on the SW side of Indy?

 

[VUPDblue]

I so sorry suh. I be keepsin mah mout shut from nows on.

 

[steveh_131]

Sure, lots of careers do have a lot to do with personality traits. You may really enjoy the thought processes and challenges of engineering and find it supremely interesting. Firefighters don't necessarily "enjoy" the idea of running into a burning building, but their desire to save lives and help others makes it worth the risk. Not too many officers grew up thinking about how cool it would be to get called all day long to go solve everybody else's personal problems. The high points of the job and the desire to help others and do your best to improve your community make it all worthwhile though. In my opinion, Denny would be what I consider one of the better officers out there. The fact that he feels that law enforcement is "who he is" probably helps to make him that way. It's like saying that the best engineers are the ones who really put themselves wholeheartedly into their work.

As I said before, the arrogant, elitist officers out there have always been that way, the authority of the job just gives them the opportunity to "enforce" it. I see arrogant, elitist people everywhere, not just in law enforcement. The difference is the authority granted to officers give that elitism more legal weight than, say, an arrogant businessman. If you run across an arrogant businessman you can ignore him and move on. If you're stopped by an arrogant cop, you're stuck with him/her for the 5-10 minutes it takes to conduct that traffic stop. I've known an arrogant cop or two but I can assure you that they were that way before LE.

EDIT: I just want to be clear that I'm speaking ONLY for myself. I'm not saying that all LEO feel that way.

I don't disagree with anything you just said. I don't think I'm familiar enough with the internal culture to really explain the point I'm trying to make. Interesting discussion though.

 

[steveh_131]

I so sorry suh. I be keepsin mah mout shut from nows on.

Probably a better strategy than misrepresenting my post to make it sound demeaning or inflammatory.

 

[VUPDblue]

 

[UncleMike]

Probably a better strategy than misrepresenting my post to make it sound demeaning or inflammatory.

Atta boy...
Keep digging.

 

[steveh_131]

Atta boy...
Keep digging.

Yeah, I'm well known in these parts for backing down with my views about law enforcement. You caught me.

 

[UncleMike]

Yeah, I'm well known in these parts for backing down with my views about law enforcement. You caught me.

Then by all means, carry on.

 

[steveh_131]

Then by all means, carry on.

AM I BEING DETAINED!?