Police and fear.

[JMoses]

Here's a good article written recently by a hoosier that has some good information considering everything that's going on with law enforcement these days.

Police and fear - Kpcnews - KPCNews.com

 

[Twangbanger]

Good post, JM.

 

[BigBoxaJunk]

Aside from the slightly flawed logic, the information is good and the statistics tell the true story.

 

[pitbulld45]

Good article

 

[BehindBlueI's]

In Marion County there are generally about the same number of police action shootings as justified citizen shootings. You guys shoot just as many as we do.

 

[2001FZ1]

Its a very biased article - think MSNBC writing about Obama.
I go several months, even a year or two at a time dealing with a police officer so of course the odds of me getting shot by a police officer are very, very low. Duh!
Yet, a police officer goes about an hour with dealing with a potential criminal (probably less time). So the odds are the police officer is going to be dealing with bad people with bad intentions on a regular basis. Was not this in the job description?
I'm not criticizing you LEOs, just the reasoning behind the story. And it fails to mention one very important fact. Of the 422 people killed by police, how many of those were bad shoots? Also, they should mention how many people were shot and survived that were innocent. That is what people are upset about.

It reminds me of the new article about shark attacks and how low the chances are of being bitten by a shark in the USA. Since most people in the USA don't go into the ocean today, this month or even this year, the odds are you won't be bitten by a shark.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

How many do you think were bad shoots? How do you think it compares to criminal or reckless shoots by armed civilians?

 

[CathyInBlue]

Aside from the slightly flawed logic, the information is good and the statistics tell the true story.

Is the information good?

686,956

What does that number, that very specific number, signify?

If you read the article carefully, you find it used twice in two completely disparate contexts. One is the number of officers who contributed to a data set. Another is the population ratio of killed by cop versus not killed by cop. Really? That number showed up twice in unrelated contexts? Possibly, sure. Probably, no. More likely the journalist fumble fingered his figures, which brings all of his figures into doubt.

 

[2001FZ1]

Its hard to say and very difficult to find exact numbers but it is more than one and one is too many. Its not like the police keep an easy to read web page showing the bad shoots.
Google "unjustified police shootings" and see what you come up with. Or google "bystander shot by police"
This is my favorite: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/23/n...ice-near-empire-state-building-sues.html?_r=0
16 shots fired at one man but the highly trained police officers hit 9 innocent people. Good shoot'n Tex!

Stop comparing criminal or reckless shoots by armed civilians to police officers. police officers receive hours of training on firearms and carry one for a living and should be much more proficient with their weapon than the average civilian don't you agree?

 

[phylodog]

police officers receive hours of training on firearms and carry one for a living and should be much more proficient with their weapon than the average civilian don't you agree?

I agree wholeheartedly but unfortunately not everyone does. The State of Indiana requires a police officer to shoot a passing score on their qualification course exactly one time in their career (during recruit training). After that officers are required to complete two hours of firearms training per year during which the officer is required to fire zero rounds of live ammunition.

I'd like to see every officer in the state required to complete two hours of firearms training per month with at least 100 rounds fired but that takes time and money, something few seem willing to spend.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Its hard to say and very difficult to find exact numbers but it is more than one and one is too many. Its not like the police keep an easy to read web page showing the bad shoots.
Google "unjustified police shootings" and see what you come up with. Or google "bystander shot by police"
This is my favorite: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/23/n...ice-near-empire-state-building-sues.html?_r=0
16 shots fired at one man but the highly trained police officers hit 9 innocent people. Good shoot'n Tex!

Stop comparing criminal or reckless shoots by armed civilians to police officers. police officers receive hours of training on firearms and carry one for a living and should be much more proficient with their weapon than the average civilian don't you agree?

Probably doesn't matter much to the person catching the bullet. Is the fact you chose to carry a gun with insufficient training or proficiency really the defense you want to go with?

 

[Rookie]

Frankly, being shot is at the bottom of my list of concerns when I come in contact with a police officer, and I think most people would agree.

 

[2001FZ1]

Probably doesn't matter much to the person catching the bullet. Is the fact you chose to carry a gun with insufficient training or proficiency really the defense you want to go with?

Good job side stepping the question.

You ASSume I carry a gun with out sufficient training. I have had military training, self defense training and probably shoot more than most.
What will be your excuse for a bad shoot?

 

[2001FZ1]

I agree wholeheartedly but unfortunately not everyone does. The State of Indiana requires a police officer to shoot a passing score on their qualification course exactly one time in their career (during recruit training). After that officers are required to complete two hours of firearms training per year during which the officer is required to fire zero rounds of live ammunition.

I'd like to see every officer in the state required to complete two hours of firearms training per month with at least 100 rounds fired but that takes time and money, something few seem willing to spend.

Why don't you and your fellow officers make a push to change this? It would make you safer and the civilians safer.
If I was a LEO and knew the guy covering my 6 with a loaded firearm potential hasn't fired that firearm since basic and that was years ago, I would be extremely nervous. How many times did he just sweep the back of my head with a loaded weapon? Can he control his firing? I would wear a heavy plate on the back side of my vest!

 

[phylodog]

I didn't say that's what we do, I said that's all that the law requires. We do significantly more than that but not enough in my opinion. The push for more never ends from me.

 

[2001FZ1]

I didn't say that's what we do, I said that's all that the law requires. We do significantly more than that but not enough in my opinion. The push for more never ends from me.

Good to know.

 

[Denny347]

Why don't you and your fellow officers make a push to change this? It would make you safer and the civilians safer.
If I was a LEO and knew the guy covering my 6 with a loaded firearm potential hasn't fired that firearm since basic and that was years ago, I would be extremely nervous. How many times did he just sweep the back of my head with a loaded weapon? Can he control his firing? I would wear a heavy plate on the back side of my vest!

WE DO...our dept is light years ahead of that. We cannot change the state standard. Our range does a world class job of training.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

You guys shoot just as many as we do.

You'll never prove that!

 

[Compatriot G]

I didn't say that's what we do, I said that's all that the law requires. We do significantly more than that but not enough in my opinion. The push for more never ends from me.

What does your qualification course consist of? Do you use this course of fire every time you train or do you shoot different types of courses for training?

I ask only out of curiosity and to see how it compares to training I have had.

 

[phylodog]

Our qualification course is not considered training, it is an administrative function required semi annually by our General Orders to establish a minimum acceptable level of proficiency. Our officers receive two 8 hour days of firearms training per year (some get 3) which consists of classroom presentations, dry fire, live fire and simulation/Simunition work.