Pistol Caliber Carbine

[Amishman44]

I'm guessing has already been done (at least a few times), but what all do you have or use or prefer as a Pistol Caliber Carbine (PCC) and what caliber have you chosen to buy or build yours in?

I'm not a huge 9mm fan (as many of you know) being more of a revolver fan, but a PCC in a revolver cartridge hasn't been successfully mastered yet (especially one in .357 magnum) so I decided to go with a more 'standard' PCC caliber, the 9mm.

After doing a lot of research, and doing price-check comparisons, I decided to go with the Aero Precision EPC-9 Upper & Lower in FDE. I went with a Ballistics Advantage 10.5" 'heavy' barrel (with the modified feed ramp) and the MAS Defense 9mm BCG. I also went with an Aero Precision 9" Foregrip and a KAK Shockwave Brace 2.0, both in FDE, to offset the look. I finished with a KAW Valley 9mm Compensator (also in FDE) and the Sig Sauer Romeo 7S Red Dot system.

Here's what I got so far, be it good...bad...ugly...thing of beauty...etc.? Thoughts?

 

[Peacekeeper3073]

Looks good, would like to see the whole thing and a range report.

 

[DadSmith]

I'm guessing has already been done (at least a few times), but what all do you have or use or prefer as a Pistol Caliber Carbine (PCC) and what caliber have you chosen to buy or build yours in?

I'm not a huge 9mm fan (as many of you know) being more of a revolver fan, but a PCC in a revolver cartridge hasn't been successfully mastered yet (especially one in .357 magnum) so I decided to go with a more 'standard' PCC caliber, the 9mm.

After doing a lot of research, and doing price-check comparisons, I decided to go with the Aero Precision EPC-9 Upper & Lower in FDE. I went with a Ballistics Advantage 10.5" 'heavy' barrel (with the modified feed ramp) and the MAS Defense 9mm BCG. I also went with an Aero Precision 9" Foregrip and a KAK Shockwave Brace 2.0, both in FDE, to offset the look. I finished with a KAW Valley 9mm Compensator (also in FDE) and the Sig Sauer Romeo 7S Red Dot system.

Here's what I got so far, be it good...bad...ugly...thing of beauty...etc.? Thoughts?

Give us a few range reports on reliability and accuracy.
I've been thinking about building one for a gift except it will have the 16" barrel.

 

[marvin02]

Here is a site I found interesting when researching AR9s:

Blowback9.com

No-BS information for the 9mm AR.

blowback9.wordpress.com

I've got 3 styles 9mm pistol caliber carbines, Ruger PCC (the new model), a Marlin Camp 9, and a PSA AR9.

I found that the AR9 works best with Glock OEM mags.

They are all fun to shoot. I will say that the newer ones have the Camp 9 beat with simplicity and overall build quality.

Are you getting a 9mm revolver to pair with the PCC?

 

[jd4320t]

Looking good. Run it and make sure you’re happy with the barrel. My EPC build has the problematic Aero barrel that I still need to return to them.

 

[DadSmith]

Looking good. Run it and make sure you’re happy with the barrel. My EPC build has the problematic Aero barrel that I still need to return to them.

What's going on with their barrels?

 

[92FSTech]

Actually, PCCs in revolver cartridges have been around for a long time...I have a Marlin 1894C in .357 Magnum (actually, have them in .45 Colt and .44 Mag as well), and it is a blast to shoot! Accurate, no recoil to speak of, and shares ammo with my .357 revolvers. As a bonus, those magnum cartridges see a huge velocity increase out of the longer barrels...enough to make them almost a viable replacement for a gun chambered in a low end center-fire rifle caliber like .30-30. Granted, they're not semi-auto and you have to run the lever, but that's half the fun .

I've got a 9mm AR built on the CMMG radially-delayed blowback system, and it is also a lot of fun on the range. It doesn't pack the downrange punch of the 1894s, but it's reliable, flat-recoiling, and lightweight. I had a straight blowback PSA 9mm before I built the CMMG and had some issues with that one...uncontrolled doubling and some OOB discharges. Straight blowback actions can be sensitive to different loads...I'd recommend trying some different varieties of 9mm ammo in yours to make sure it doesn't do any weird stuff, and select your regular-use load accordingly.

Found an old pic of the CMMG RDB AR from a range day last year:

 

[Amishman44]

What's going on with their barrels?

They had an issue with the feed ramp not feeding correctly, which is why I waited and got one with the 'improved ramp' barrel...if you buy one from Ballistics Advantage, make sure you buy a barrel that has the letters 'EPC' in the title and you'll have the improved feed ramp barrel.

 

[marvin02]

What's going on with their barrels?

Issues with not feeding HP and other flat nose rounds.

They altered the feed cone to fix it.

Long version:

Aero EPC Barrel Feeding Fix Update! (feed cone picture added)

Aero is apparently replacing the original EPC/Ballistic Advantage barrels for their customers with feeding issues! They claim to have developed a new feed cone solution that has been “rigorou…

blowback9.wordpress.com

 

[BoilerWes]

Looks good!

I’m saving up for a JP-5…which is essentially a MP-5 clone that takes Glock mags.

 

[Amishman44]

Actually, PCCs in revolver cartridges have been around for a long time...I have a Marlin 1894C in .357 Magnum (actually, have them in .45 Colt and .44 Mag as well), and it is a blast to shoot! Accurate, no recoil to speak of, and shares ammo with my .357 revolvers. As a bonus, those magnum cartridges see a huge velocity increase out of the longer barrels...enough to make them almost a viable replacement for a gun chambered in a low end center-fire rifle caliber like .30-30. Granted, they're not semi-auto and you have to run the lever, but that's half the fun .

I've got a 9mm AR built on the CMMG radially-delayed blowback system, and it is also a lot of fun on the range. It doesn't pack the downrange punch of the 1894s, but it's reliable, flat-recoiling, and lightweight. I had a straight blowback PSA 9mm before I built the CMMG and had some issues with that one...uncontrolled doubling and some OOB discharges. Straight blowback actions can be sensitive to different loads...I'd recommend trying some different varieties of 9mm ammo in yours to make sure it doesn't do any weird stuff, and select your regular-use load accordingly.

With the Marlin 1884C you're talking about a lever-action rifle with a tubular magazine (a very nice rifle, I agree) instead of a semi-automatic pistol caliber carbine that takes detachable Glock magazines. I have a Winchester '94 compact in .357 magnum and it's awesome to shoot...but it's not a semi-automatic, which is what I was referring to with my post.

Initially, I'm going to try to work with 147 grain loads in the PCC as with the longer barrel (10.5" as opposed to a shorter 3", 4", or 5" standard pistol barrel) as there should be better ballistics for the 147 grain bullet shot through the longer barrel due to there being more 'burn' time to help get the heavier bullet up to speed and, as an added plus, it should carry farther and with better accuracy with a slightly longer barrel?

I'm staying away from the 16" barrels though...apparently 9mm reaches its peak velocity somewhere in the 12" barrel length range and, after that, 'drag' from the barrel tends to start slowing the bullet down even before it reaches the muzzle of the barrel.

 

[MrSmitty]

It's not in your price range, or quality, but My KT Sub 2000 is pretty darn accurate. The longer barrel does help with the burn of the powder.. Nice gun!! I, too, would like to see the whole gun....

 

[92FSTech]

I'm staying away from the 16" barrels though...apparently 9mm reaches its peak velocity somewhere in the 12" barrel length range and, after that, 'drag' from the barrel tends to start slowing the bullet down even before it reaches the muzzle of the barrel.

Yeah, in my chronograph work I didn't see much gain past 8" of barrel in 9mm guns, particularly with defensive ammo using low flash, fast burning powders. My typical range load is a 135gr bullet over HS6, which burns a little slower and saw slight gains out of the longer barrel, but nothing significant. I have a 16" barrel on mine, as it's intended to function as a training platform for my .223 rifles that I can run on the pistol-caliber only bays at our club, and on close range steel.

 

[Amishman44]

It's not in your price range, or quality, but My KT Sub 2000 is pretty darn accurate. The longer barrel does help with the burn of the powder.. Nice gun!! I, too, would like to see the whole gun....

By 'see the whole gun'...do you mean a picture of the other side?
I have friends who have the Kel-Tek Sub-2000 and they love them, but they're not rated for +P and I didn't want that, so I've kinda shied away from them!
The KT Sub-2000 comes in right about 1/2 the price of the Aero Precision I just built, but after I get the EPC-9 to the range, I'll then be able to compare accuracy with them, head-to-head.

 

[Amishman44]

Yeah, in my chronograph work I didn't see much gain past 8" of barrel in 9mm guns, particularly with defensive ammo using low flash, fast burning powders. My typical range load is a 135gr bullet over HS6, which burns a little slower and saw slight gains out of the longer barrel, but nothing significant. I have a 16" barrel on mine, as it's intended to function as a training platform for my .223 rifles that I can run on the pistol-caliber only bays at our club, and on close range steel.

The chronograph results I saw showed most velocity gains occur in the 8" barrel length with a slight flattening of the velocity curve up to around 11"-12" and then it starts to drop in velocity after 12" of barrel length. I have a Glock 34 with a 6" KKP Precision target barrel in it and I didn't want to be so close in performance with the 8" barrel, which is why I chose the 10.5" length, so as to be able to see a difference in bullet performance.

 

[Skullglide]

I have the Aero EPC with 16”bbl. Just got the new barrel from Aero this week. Still need to shoot it. Very handy set up.

 

[Route 45]

The chronograph results I saw showed most velocity gains occur in the 8" barrel length with a slight flattening of the velocity curve up to around 11"-12" and then it starts to drop in velocity after 12" of barrel length. I have a Glock 34 with a 6" KKP Precision target barrel in it and I didn't want to be so close in performance with the 8" barrel, which is why I chose the 10.5" length, so as to be able to see a difference in bullet performance.

Depends on the load. M1152 does really well out of a 16" barrel, 1587 fps/643 fpe.

 

[DadSmith]

Depends on the load. M1152 does really well out of a 16" barrel, 1587 fps/643 fpe.

I want to buy some of that it looks fun.

I'm no longer looking for anything less than a 10mm semi-auto carbine that uses Glock magazines. Until they perfect that I'll wait.

 

[mmpsteve]

I want to buy some of that it looks fun.

I'm no longer looking for anything less than a 10mm semi-auto carbine that uses Glock magazines. Until they perfect that I'll wait.

I buyed once, cried once, on the CMMG Banshee with G**** mags. No regrets. Only 8" barrel, but the 10mm Underwoods scream pretty good out of it.

I need to get it on the chrono.

.

 

[DadSmith]

I buyed once, cried once, on the CMMG Banshee with G**** mags. No regrets. Only 8" barrel, but the 10mm Underwoods scream pretty good out of it.

I need to get it on the chrono.

.

I'm waiting on a 16" version. Aero Precision was supposed to have brought one out this year but they said it's on the back burner because they ran into issues in development.
Definitely do not want ti rush them. Get it working reliably then sell it.