open carry

[colt45er]

points noted, but on the other hand when do you have a moral responsibility to protect others?

In my opinion if I am able to protect someone I have the responisbility to protect them, family or stranger.

If they decide today is not the day, they may have a change of heart and not come back ever, or they may come back later when there is nobody to challenge them. You saved yourself but did nothing to take a criminal off the streets. I guess I just couldn't live with the guilt that someone else was put in danger because I saved myself.

 

[dburkhead]

points noted, but on the other hand when do you have a moral responsibility to protect others?

In my opinion if I am able to protect someone I have the responisbility to protect them, family or stranger.

If they decide today is not the day, they may have a change of heart and not come back ever, or they may come back later when there is nobody to challenge them. You saved yourself but did nothing to take a criminal off the streets. I guess I just couldn't live with the guilt that someone else was put in danger because I saved myself.

And if the robbery doesn't happen, then you have protected everybody there.

Be very, very careful about taking the attitude that being able to shoot/kill the perpetrator as being a positive goal (even as "take the criminal off the streets"). That can be very bad juju for a "self defense" defense.

Having more people armed in general, concealed and open carry both, has the effect of taking the bad guys off the streets. Enough times coming on the scene with where somebody is armed will eventually make many folk think twice. And more concealed carry folk will make choosing to continue a life of violent crime more dangerous for the perpetrator.

But the "tactical" advantage of CC over OC is unproven at best.

 

[colt45er]

I comes down to personal choice.

Me personally I look at studies and statistics that say that once a criminal has determined to break the law, they do not care what stands in their way.

In my opinion if I decided to rob a bank with gun, knife, whatever and I showed up I wouldnt be turned away by a guy with a gun, I would shoot him. There is no way to defend against that.

OC or CC if you dont notice the threat beforhand, you should pay more attention to your surroundings.

 

[dburkhead]

I comes down to personal choice.

Me personally I look at studies and statistics that say that once a criminal has determined to break the law, they do not care what stands in their way.

In my opinion if I decided to rob a bank with gun, knife, whatever and I showed up I wouldnt be turned away by a guy with a gun, I would shoot him. There is no way to defend against that.

OC or CC if you dont notice the threat beforhand, you should pay more attention to your surroundings.

What studies and statistics? Can you point me to some of them?

 

[colt45er]

I will do my best to dig them up for you.

 

[rhino]

There are plenty of documented interviews with criminals who will say that the presence of a gun did or would make them seek other prey.

There does not exist any evidence that supports that a private citizen openly carrying a firearm will be or has ever been "targeted first" by a violent criminal. If I'm wrong, feel free to provide the evidence (good luck with that).

ATM is also correct in that "surprise" favors the aggressor, not the defender.

You can choose to conceal or not for whatever reasons you choose, but I wish people would stop with the "you'll be targeted first!" nonsense unless and until they can provide one shred of evidence that it's ever happened. It's an urban myth whether you like it or not, whether it agrees with your opinion or not.

 

[GetA2J]

ATM, I ask you to think it out. You are walking down the street and see someone with a gun that you see as a threat to you....what do you do?

A. Ignore them and walk to your car
B. Say "Hi" to them and walk to your car
C. Do whatever you can to eliminate the threat

I am choosing C, evertime no matter what I am doing I am going to eliminate the threat to me.

OK I am walking down the street and I am carrying my gun openly. (after all it IS legal to do so) I see someone walikng to his car that I recognize as an insurance man I've been wanting to talk to. (I saw his picture on his webpage for liberty mutual and I had a couple of questions) So as I am walking up looking at this man (with my gun on my hip) as if to engage in conversation with him. Am I viewed as a threat and do you now plan on eliminating that threat???? Am I going to die? perception is important. Cut-and-dried scenarios are not always cut-and-dried.

If you disagree I would like to know why I should think differently.

Now reverse rolls.

You are filling out a deposit slip at the bank. Someone walks in to rob the place at gunpoint. They see you carring a gun on your hip. Would they

A. Ignore you and rob the bank
B. Say "Hi" and rob the bank
C. Neutrize the threat immediatly

The answer is C, human nature kicks in and you eliminate the threat.

If I am wrong in my thinking please point me in the right direction.

A) assuming the bank robber walks into the bank with gun drawn. (which is highly unlikely) your scenario works. The robber is committed and there is no turning back if walking into the bank with guns drawn.
There was a scenario just like this in the news recently. The bank security guard opened fire and hit at least one of the perps before actually entering the bank. https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo.../11646-guard_opens_fires_on_bank_robbers.html

B) If the robber walks into the bank WITHOUT his gun drawn and sees somebody with a gun on his hip... does he decide to do it anyway. ( I know you mentioned that once you made your mind up to rob the bank nothing would stop you. but what about this guy) Keep in mind that most criminals are cowards and look for the path of least resistance.

I do occasionaly carry openly. (although that will come to a screeching halt as the new administration spreads hype that guns are bad and guns kill people for no reason in order to advance their agenda in banning all handguns)
When I do carry openly I conduct myself very politely with smiles abounding and try to further the positive light in which the general public looks at those of us who carry guns for personal protection.

 

[colt45er]

So Say said Insurance agent seen you walking up to him. your weapon is in a holster and you are walking toward me, he would mentally note the scenario.

If you begin reaching for the weapon in any way shape or form, senses would be spiked. If you walked up with gun in hand, yes you may get your self shot.

Like I said, it is all personal preference.

BTW, it is against company policy to possess a weapon of any kind on company property or at a company event...

 

[colt45er]

The beauty of this discussion is that we live in a country where we can have this discussion!!! We must never forget that we are all on the same side!!

 

[rhino]

I'd also like to remind everyone that criminals do not make it a habit of carrying their guns where they are easily seen.

 

[GetA2J]

So Say said Insurance agent seen you walking up to him. your weapon is in a holster and you are walking toward me, he would mentally note the scenario.

If you begin reaching for the weapon in any way shape or form, senses would be spiked. If you walked up with gun in hand, yes you may get your self shot.

Like I said, it is all personal preference.

BTW, it is against company policy to possess a weapon of any kind on company property or at a company event...

Point taken. And since we all now know that it is against company policy to provide yourself with personal protection we will help watch out for you.

I'd also like to remind everyone that criminals do not make it a habit of carrying their guns where they are easily seen.

Point taken.
I made a point like that to a little old lady who very calmly asked me if it was legal to carry my gun like that (openly). And then told me that she thought I was going to rob her. I told her that bad guys usually don't have their gun in nice leather holsters, theirs are either tucked in their pants or in your face.

 

[ATM]

The beauty of this discussion is that we live in a country where we can have this discussion!!! We must never forget that we are all on the same side!!

We are all on the same side and I see this as a nice place to propose and challenge points common to this "choir." I will not challenge your choice of carry - only your method of promoting it. Fine tuning your reasons here, where your choice is supported, ensures a stronger premise to defend against the antis and their "reasons" to strip your rights. The horse beating was simply for the common "target" and "advantage" reasons which have been discussed a few times before.

 

[ATM]

D. Decide not to rob this bank at this time. After all, it's simple enough to just back right out the door and try the next bank over. There's no pressing need that it must be this bank at this time to rob. That only happens in Hollywood.

That would have been my answer as well. I, like the police, can't be everywhere. But wherever I am, everyone is a little safer.

 

[Marc]

That would have been my answer as well. I, like the police, can't be everywhere. But wherever I am, everyone is a little safer.

i 99.9repeating agree with you,why do you ask only 99.9repeating... well because something could happen on the other side of where i am at and it takes you a second to get there.

 

[GetA2J]

i 99.9percent agree with you,why do you ask only 99.9percent... well because something could happen on the other side of where i am at and it takes you a second to get there.

If it happens on the other side of where you are at. Then you are NOT there. It still holds true that wherever you ARE others are safer for it.

 

[rhino]

I'm reminded that I've only received two comments/questions this year when I've open carried. The first was months ago at a gas station convenience store near Decatur. The clerk asked me if I was a trucker. I didn't understand, so he explained that a lot of truckers in that area have recently become more obvious about being armed. He thought it was a really good thing.

The other was with the last couple of months, this time in a gas station convenience store in Cloverdale. A guy walked past me and said, "You're loaded for bear," in a good natured way and smiled, and that was it. I recognize that the latter of the two could have been a snarky, sarcastic remark, but it didn't seem to be at the time, so I didn't take it negatively.

Open carry is a lot less eventful than most people who don't do it regularly choose to believe. I know there have been some incidents, but most of the people who push the horror stories rarely if ever actually do it. Open carry is more common than they want to admit and becoming more so every day. Yet, the number of bad incidents is either not increasing or decreasing per number of people carrying openly.

Regardless of your personal reasons for open carry, it's clearly a viable and legitimate choice. I just wish people who should be "on our side" would stop projecting their own fears, weakness, and negative emotions onto others as much as they do.

 

[Marc]

If it happens on the other side of where you are at. Then you are NOT there. It still holds true that wherever you ARE others are safer for it.

touche... nice retort

 

[dclaarjr]

There are a lot of reasons why people carry the way they do. It is just like choosing a gun or holster. You have to choose what works best for you. This is learned through practice and training. I normally CC myself, but there are occasions where I do open carry. IMO a person must use what is comfortable for him/her when it comes to self defense or if SHTF they will fail.

BTW: Maybe this is my military background kicking in, but a defender can have a tactical advantage with the element of surprise, as long as he/she maintains proper situational awareness.