OK to carry in the Indianapolis Zoo?

[TN_Mike]

I am new to Indiana. Just moved here from Tennessee and I am wondering, now that I have my IN carry permit, is it OK to carry in the Indianapolis Zoo or this an off limits place?

Childrens Museum would also be a place I wonder about.

 

[Scutter01]

They both have "No Firearms" signs and will eject you if they see you carrying. If you don't leave, you can be charged with trespassing. However, the signs themselves have no actual force of law behind them.

 

[redpitbull44]

I pocket carried a Kel Tec P3AT and no one was the wiser. Don't open carry, but deep concealed carry is fine.

They don't want you carrying at the Children's Museum either. Again, pocket carry, P3AT. No one knew any different.

The only thing that bothers me is the idea of carrying, somehow losing my gun (hasn't ever happened, but anything is possible) , and some random kid finding it. THAT WOULD SUCK. You just have to be 100x more aware of your firearm than you already are with that many kids around. I will tell you now, that at the Zoo, and at the Children's Museum, I really did not see/feel any threat, and since it cost money to go in there, unless it is a terrorist or the damn robutt aliens, the riff raff typically stays the hell out.

 

[Marc]

i cc my g23 when im in there

 

[Scutter01]

The only thing that bothers me is the idea of carrying, somehow losing my gun (hasn't ever happened, but anything is possible) , and some random kid finding it. THAT WOULD SUCK. You just have to be 100x more aware of your firearm than you already are with that many kids around. I will tell you now, that at the Zoo, and at the Children's Museum, I really did not see/feel any threat, and since it cost money to go in there, unless it is a terrorist or the damn robutt aliens, the riff raff typically stays the hell out.

It's not necessarily carrying in the Zoo and the Museum that are the concerns. It's walking in the parking lots, or leaving your pistol in the car to get stolen. I know three different people who have been jumped in supposedly-safe parking lots in the last two years. I've been approached in parking lots twice recently, although both times were by panhandlers and not muggers.

Also, how do you accidentally lose your gun? For me, it would be like accidentally losing my arm. I'm gonna know it's missing almost immediately, or at least as soon as the next time I try to look at my watch.

 

[TN_Mike]

Thanks for the info guys. The one and only thing about the gun laws that I like over my home state of Tennessee is that the no firearms signs do not hold any weight of law here. They do in Tennessee.

I will be carrying in the Zoo and the Childrens museum. And in deep concealment situations, I use a SmartCarry so almost no chance that I would lose my gun.

 

[Marc]

just remember keep it covered and be sure your not presenting any signs that you are, ie touching your hip every 5 minutes to the watchful eye they will know something is up

 

[jontheturboguy]

Remember this too: if a school has the facilities, and is a school function, you will be in deep dish pizza if a soccer mom sees it on accident.
That's said, concealed means concealed.

 

[Scutter01]

just remember keep it covered and be sure your not presenting any signs that you are, ie touching your hip every 5 minutes to the watchful eye they will know something is up

Touch your hip all you want; what can they do about it? Unless it's a cop, you don't have to tell them you're carrying. My favorite response: "No, it's my colostomy bag and I don't appreciate you pointing it out in front of everyone, you insensitive clod!"

 

[long coat]

Didn't they open some kind of school at the Childrens Museum?

 

[TN_Mike]

Didn't they open some kind of school at the Childrens Museum?

IDK. We've been there once so far and I didn't see any school. No signs pointing anything like a school out either.

 

[Bummer]

It's not necessarily carrying in the Zoo and the Museum that are the concerns. It's walking in the parking lots, or leaving your pistol in the car to get stolen. I know three different people who have been jumped in supposedly-safe parking lots in the last two years. I've been approached in parking lots twice recently, although both times were by panhandlers and not muggers. ...

Last fall I got robbed in the parking lot across the street from the Children's Museum. That incident took me from occasional black powder plinker to unapologetic licensed full time carrier.

... My favorite response: "No, it's my colostomy bag and I don't appreciate you pointing it out in front of everyone, you insensitive clod!"

Now that's funny.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Remember this too: if a school has the facilities, and is a school function, you will be in deep dish pizza if a soccer mom sees it on accident.
That's said, concealed means concealed.

Personally, I do not subscribe (wholly) to the above.

Just because a school group shows up doesn't mean the entire place suddenly becomes a no-carry zone. HOWEVER, if a whole gaggle of schools come together and rent out the entire venue, to the exclusion of all others, then I would agree it being a no-carry zone.

Greenwood Park Mall doesn't suddenly become a no-carry zone (according to the law) just because the Greenwood High School choir goes to sing some Christmas songs...

Didn't they open some kind of school at the Childrens Museum?

There IS a preschool of sorts now operating at the Children's Museum. However, I do not believe that it meets the Indiana Code for being an actual bona-fide "preschool."

It is also not billed as being a "day care", even though it's operation/function is more akin to that of a day care.

I would strongly urge you to seek out the Children's Museum's preschools information yourself.

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).
As added by P.L.296-1987, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.34-1991, SEC.27; P.L.9-1991, SEC.95; P.L.2-1992, SEC.880; P.L.81-1992, SEC.38; P.L.1-1993, SEC.240; P.L.160-1994, SEC.1; P.L.1-2005, SEC.227; P.L.145-2006, SEC.370.

 

[jedi]

Personally, I do not subscribe (wholly) to the above.

Just because a school group shows up doesn't mean the entire place suddenly becomes a no-carry zone. HOWEVER, if a whole gaggle of schools come together and rent out the entire venue, to the exclusion of all others, then I would agree it being a no-carry zone.

Greenwood Park Mall doesn't suddenly become a no-carry zone (according to the law) just because the Greenwood High School choir goes to sing some Christmas songs...

IANAL & THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVISE.
We have gone round and round on this topic on INGO for the past 1+ year. Currently there is no REAL LEAGL answer to the above scenario. (Ie. Does a place that is NOT a school become a "school" when a school function is occuring.) The reason there is no legal answer is becuase there have been no case law on this topic.

That portion of the law was written with promos/after school events in mind that occur off school property. The idea was/is that little jimmy can't take his gun to the promo when the promo is at the holiday inn.

What the law did not consider and no Indiana court has yet to look at is what occurs when CommonMan Joe walks into Holiday Inn the same day that little Jim is having his promo. Reading the law by the letter so to speak then CommonMan Joe is on school property as Holiday Inn is magically a school for that event. But again there is no case law on this and the legislators have not addresses this issue (yet).

There IS a preschool of sorts now operating at the Children's Museum. However, I do not believe that it meets the Indiana Code for being an actual bona-fide "preschool."

It is also not billed as being a "day care", even though it's operation/function is more akin to that of a day care.

I would strongly urge you to seek out the Children's Museum's preschools information yourself.

IC 35-41-1-24.7
"School property" defined
Sec. 24.7. "School property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by:
(A) a school corporation;
(B) an entity that is required to be licensed under IC 12-17.2 or IC 31-27;
(C) a private school that is not supported and maintained by funds realized from the imposition of a tax on property, income, or sales; or
(D) a federal, state, local, or nonprofit program or service operated to serve, assist, or otherwise benefit children who are at least three (3) years of age and not yet enrolled in kindergarten, including the following:
(i) A Head Start program under 42 U.S.C. 9831 et seq.
(ii) A special education preschool program.
(iii) A developmental child care program for preschool children.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1).
As added by P.L.296-1987, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.34-1991, SEC.27; P.L.9-1991, SEC.95; P.L.2-1992, SEC.880; P.L.81-1992, SEC.38; P.L.1-1993, SEC.240; P.L.160-1994, SEC.1; P.L.1-2005, SEC.227; P.L.145-2006, SEC.370.

If the pre-school is a LICENSED pre-school with the State of Indiana then the museum becomes a school. So the question is does anyone one know if the pre-school is LICENSED by the state?



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[Indy317]

Also, how do you accidentally lose your gun? For me, it would be like accidentally losing my arm.

Pure stupidity. Some folks don't view guns like they should. There are two groups of people who I know are bad about this:

#1: Someone who really just wants a gun at their home, but gets their license to carry anyway. They carry less than 1% of the time, and there is no reason why they carry. Since carrying isn't the norm for this type of person, if they remove their gun (likely while in the restroom), they might forget about it.

#2: The LEO who is absolutely not a gun person. To this type of LEO, the gun to them is just a tool of the job. It is like the business person who is forced to carry a work pager, and they get one page a year, if that. I know of one officer who lost their Glock. Yes, they lost it. Come to find out, that officer had to use a spare pool car because their take home car was broken down. Another officer who had a reason to get in, or use, the pool car found the other officers gun under the driver's seat.

I swear I recall a former co-worker, who used to install car audio equipment, tell me that some of the customers would say "Oh, I need to get my gun." as they were about ready to leave while their car got worked on.

If the pre-school is a LICENSED pre-school with the State of Indiana then the museum becomes a school. So the question is does anyone one know if the pre-school is LICENSED by the state?

It sounds like the "pre-school" is nothing more than you pay to have your kid do something a few hours a week, from one to three days a week. It appears the maximum days a kid could go to this "pre-school" is only three days a week. We should watch this though, as if it proves popular enough, they could open a full blown daycare/pre-school, especially considering the fed gov is picking up the tab for some daycare.

© The Children's Museum of Indianapolis

© The Children's Museum of Indianapolis

This brings up another topic: Carry at colleges and universities. Most ban carry, but all they could do is ask you to leave. However, lots of larger colleges and universities have on-site daycare facilities. IUPUI's center is licensed, and they also offer Kindergarten classes:

Center for Young Children : Finance and Administration : IUPUI

Center for Young Children : Finance and Administration : IUPUI

On edit, the definition of school property is "A building or other structure owned or rented..." and "The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1)." Something to definitely take note of with these private daycare centers that end up offering licensed Kindergarten classes.

 

[jedi]

This brings up another topic: Carry at colleges and universities. Most ban carry, but all they could do is ask you to leave. However, lots of larger colleges and universities have on-site daycare facilities. IUPUI's center is licensed, and they also offer Kindergarten classes:

Center for Young Children : Finance and Administration : IUPUI

Center for Young Children : Finance and Administration : IUPUI

On edit, the definition of school property is "A building or other structure owned or rented..." and "The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure described in subdivision (1)." Something to definitely take note of with these private daycare centers that end up offering licensed Kindergarten classes.

Yes I was aware of this one (above) due to another series of post here on INGO. We need this

fixed because it's like walking in a

landmine right now as to one second you are OK and the next BOOM! felony!!!!

 

[Green04]

not that you..or anyone for that matter should be worried in the museum or zoo but look how many people say theyve cc in both of theese places, how many people you think have/do that you dont know about?..or even if they have a knife or just there fists and try something. people are getting crazier by the day lol.

it cant hurt to have a little protection but like others have said if you lose it and a kid finds it, thatl be one BAD day. just make sure your more cautious then ever. PLUS WHAT IF THE ZOMBI APOCALYPSE JUST HAPPENEDS TO START WHILE YOU IN EITHER OF THEESE PLACES!

 

[revance]

I would not carry at the Children's Museum now they have the so-called "pre-school". I think any attempt to say it isn't a real pre-school would be futile given the fact your average person would freak out knowing that people carry guns around children (THINK OF THE CHILDREN!). I always carried there until they opened the pre-school.

As for those implying you are safe at the Children's Museum... the 30th and Illinois area has a LOT OF VIOLENT CRIME! In fact, I think when I was looking at the stats a while back 30th and MLK (just a couple blocks away) was the 2nd worst IMPD area (or whatever they call them).

As for the school function thing... someone already mentioned there was no solid answer. However I don't believe the courts would rule that an area becomes a school just because a school bus pulls up. I believe the intent of the law would prevail. The intent was to prevent people from carrying while ATTENDING a school function... not to turn some random guy eating at McDonalds into a felon just because a school group shows up. Now if you went to McDonalds to meet up with your kids field trip, then I believe the courts would rule against you. Of course this is just MHO.

 

[revance]

Last fall I got robbed in the parking lot across the street from the Children's Museum.

I assume you mean the parking garage ATTACHED TO THE MUSEUM? Since that is the only parking across the street.

Again, 30th and Illinois is not a safe place. Just because there is a museum there doesn't mean criminals leave you alone.

After all... criminals would never target a place with cash carrying tourists who are within walking distance of their hood

 

[jedi]

I would not carry at the Children's Museum now they have the so-called "pre-school". I think any attempt to say it isn't a real pre-school would be futile given the fact your average person would freak out knowing that people carry guns around children (THINK OF THE CHILDREN!). I always carried there until they opened the pre-school.

As for those implying you are safe at the Children's Museum... the 30th and Illinois area has a LOT OF VIOLENT CRIME! In fact, I think when I was looking at the stats a while back 30th and MLK (just a couple blocks away) was the 2nd worst IMPD area (or whatever they call them).

As for the school function thing... someone already mentioned there was no solid answer. However I don't believe the courts would rule that an area becomes a school just because a school bus pulls up. I believe the intent of the law would prevail. The intent was to prevent people from carrying while ATTENDING a school function... not to turn some random guy eating at McDonalds into a felon just because a school group shows up. Now if you went to McDonalds to meet up with your kids field trip, then I believe the courts would rule against you. Of course this is just MHO.

I don't recall what those who are more versed in the law call it something to the effect that Indiana Gun laws do not consider intent when being applied. Meaning that if you walk onto a church which happens to also have a school and area arrested for having a gun at the school the law does not care that your intent was to go to the church only.

The law as it is written is black/white in this regard.

Now you are correct that with no case law it would be up to the judge and/or jury to determine so it's a 50/50 chance that you are taking on that one. In this case the we have unintended consequences due to how the law was written and no Indiana rep ha seen to it to fix it.