OC vs HOA

[Jack Ryan]

I would politely fight any infringement on my rights as much as I could. That is the reason I refuse to live in a neighborhood and live out in the country. I will not live somewhere where a neighborhood association can tell me what to do on my property (unless they want to start paying my mortgage).

There are no "free" counties in north eastern Indiana. They all have a county wide HOA called a zoning board who votes on what you will be allowed to do with your property.

 

[Marc]

I would say, "...and that's a problem how? for who? while you yahoos stand "crime watch". I'll watch my own stuff and I'll be able to do something about it while you crime watch your stuff running down the street."

sorry im posting so much in this thread... im tired of watching people being pushed around and thats why i proposed a cookout in the area that has the most negative aspect towards guns.


p.s. cookout should be held infront of house. ill bring cheese filled hotdogs and maybe some deer if i get the deperdaion tags in time.

 

[danmrt868]

I wouldn't worry to much about it, they can't make any laws (rules) its public property and the permit in ur pocket says u can carry on any public street oc or cc so i would be polite till i had to be a d**k

 

[1032JBT]

I haven't read the whole thread yet so this might be repeating someone else's advice. First, follow melensdad's advice and know the covenents and bylaws better than the board does. Second (or maybe first, however you feel), call the PD that would respond there and find out FOR SURE that the streets in the neighborhood are public streets not priviate streets. If they are public, then the HOA can pass whatever they want and they still can't say anything to you. Priviate streets, ehhh.....who knows but I still doubt they could pass anything to prohibit it. As far as the LEO board member.......invite him over for dinner and get to know him. If he sees you are truely responsible and are not doing it just to **** people off then he might actually fight for you instead of against you. If not.......eff him cause there isn't anything he can do anyway.

If you don't want to do any of this, then just keep doing what you are doing because as long as you have the LTCH, then you are legal and they can all **** off.

 

[redneckmedic]

Not suggesting....
You could choose your battles and just CC, I hear your voice and believe in your cause...I truely do, just throwing out there option B............. just sayin'.

 

[Passive101]

I'm all for a cookout.

I have a glock 26 and a IWB holster I'd wear with a tucked in shirt (I didn't buy it for OC).

I'm over in La Porte, CO. My g/f could make a cake or something. One of the pies she makes is to die for

 

[thompal]

I'm all in!!!!!

Count me in too!

 

[melensdad]

In fact, if you continue to violate a by-law, and do no pay the fines, the HOA can, and will, put a lien on your home.

NOT NECESSARILY.

It really depends on the authority that the HOA has been granted. Some are granted near full authority, some are granted very limited authority. There are wildly swinging degrees to authority and that is why it is so important to KNOW YOUR RULES, all of them. Both the BYLAWS and the land COVENANTS. Those are two different things and they may come with different types of authority from within the HOA.

Realize that many HOAs are power hungry and yet don't have some of the power they claim. But some do have real power. It all depends on the powers granted by the covenants.

As for walking down the street, again that would be something covered in the covenants. If the street is maintained (filled potholes) and snowplowed by the city/county then that is almost assuredly a public roadway deeded back to the city/county. Very very few HOAs actually own the roads. In my HOA the actual property line for my lot goes to the center of the road and the road is NOT deeded to the county. We pay for our own snow plowing, we pay for our own asphalt. There is no public road in my HOA, but the HOA does not own it either, it just maintains the easement we build into a road. I believe there is only 1 other similar HOA in my county and that other one is inside a gated country club.

To the original poster: YOU MUST KNOW your covenants and bylaws. I keep repeating this, but there are a lot of people telling you what an HOA can do and not one single one of those people seems to know the covenants or bylaws in YOUR particular HOA. I think there has been ample illustration that HOAs vary in their ability to enforce rules but do NOT assume they are all powerful. The more ignorant you are of your own covenants and bylaws then the more they can threaten and bully you. You may do a couple good reads of the rules and find out they have no more authority a toothless de-balled yapping little poodle.

 

[sonovasailor]

Your rights are being threatened. But I have a different take. Wear the dang thing in spite of what anyone says. Just conceal it. I'm not a proponent of OC anyway. I have always wanted to be underestimated, then surprise 'em. If you CC, you are still exercising your #2, And being a good neighbor. Everbody wins, and you are the better person!

 

[hoosiertriangle]

This isn't directed particularly at you, but to all those who've articulated that the OP should solve his problem by concealing his weapon. Though it is a valid option, that wasn't what he asked about. He asked what he should do to respond to his overzealous HOA. I find it interesting that when people express issues they've had because they open carried a weapon, many of the responses are that, in effect, the person should run from the real problem by hiding their weapon through CC. I personally don't believe you uphold your rights and the rights of others by running from the real problem or avoiding the real problem.

I will grant you that there are times and places for everything, and sometimes discretion is warranted. I just don't think that perscribing CC for every problem somebody has who OC is appropriate or responsible. For the OP, there is nothing more powerful than knowledge. You need lots of it. You need to know your HOA rules, bylaws, and covenants. You need to know your county zoning laws. You also need to know a decent lawyer who will help you deal with a bully (your HOA). I wish you much luck! Where, by chance, are you located about (County/City)?

Your rights are being threatened. But I have a different take. Wear the dang thing in spite of what anyone says. Just conceal it. I'm not a proponent of OC anyway. I have always wanted to be underestimated, then surprise 'em. If you CC, you are still exercising your #2, And being a good neighbor. Everbody wins, and you are the better person!

 

[cce1302]

citizenvain,
I hope you continue to OC where you please. It is not the right of the HOA to tell you how or where or whether you may defend yourself. [this is one reason I have always told my realtor "do not show me a house in a HOA.]
There is a subdivision with a HOA across the street from my house. It is a nice place to walk with my family. I OC there quite often and nobody bothers me. I really wish they'd pull that "you can't OC in our HOA" thing on me though. I wouldn't tell them that I'm not in their HOA or my name or my address. I'd play them like a banjo just to watch how pissed off they got.
Your best bet is if the streets are owned by the municipality. I don't think the HOA can tell you how to walk on them.

Your rights are being threatened. But I have a different take. Wear the dang thing in spite of what anyone says. Just conceal it. I'm not a proponent of OC anyway. I have always wanted to be underestimated, then surprise 'em. If you CC, you are still exercising your #2, And being a good neighbor. Everbody wins, and you are the better person!

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...lf_defense/37307-common_oc_cc_threadjack.html

 

[spartan933]

They cannot make you do anything you don't want to do. If they choose to exclude you from certain committees, that is their choice. It sucks. But, that's how they are. Now, if they pass a motion in the future that prohibits OC'ing, you should contact your attorney. But, unless that happens, you have to deal with it.

 

[agentl074]

What I think would be a good idea for things like these is an advocacy group similar to the American Legion - offering legal representation for specific issues - as a free service included in the membership. The representative would be able to advocate on the gun owners behalf to the HOA.

 

[ocsdor]

I wouldn't worry to much about it, they can't make any laws (rules) its public property and the permit in ur pocket says u can carry on any public street oc or cc so i would be polite till i had to be a d*ck

"Well, being a d*ck ain't so bad. You see, there are three kinds of people: d*cks, p*ssies, and assh*les. P*ssies think everyone can get along, and d*cks just want to f*ck all the time without thinking it through. But then you got your assh*les Chuck; and all the assh*les want is to sh*t all over everything.

So, p*ssies may get mad at d*cks once in a while because p*ssies get f*cked by d*cks; but, d*cks also f*ck assh*les Chuck. And, if they didn't f*ck the assh*les, do you know what you'd get? You'd get your d*ck and your p*ssy all covered in sh*t!"

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aYtHDlAkN0"]YouTube - Team America - dicks, pussies and assholes[/ame]

 

[booey50]

well you own the house, the land, why in the world are they telling you how to do things this just isnt about the gun thing, these people are taking your basic rights as a land owner and dictating that, i can't remember the last time the united states was named germany or ussr tell them to f off what are they going to do kick you out of your own house...

 

[hoosiertriangle]

Though I agree with your thinking on this, the problem is the contract he signed. Contract law is extremely powerful. You can and do contract rights away when you buy property that is part of a HOA. Contracts can be changed and/or broken. In this instance, if the HOA has the ability to ban OC or carry at all, the I'd be inclined that the contract is likely unenforceable in a court. Unfortunately, that isn't usually able to be determined until you go to court to get it straightened out.

well you own the house, the land, why in the world are they telling you how to do things this just isnt about the gun thing, these people are taking your basic rights as a land owner and dictating that, i can't remember the last time the united states was named germany or ussr tell them to f off what are they going to do kick you out of your own house...

 

[MeltonLaw]

I'd have to reread Indiana's preemption laws, but from what I recall they limit towns, townships, cities, counties and what could be construed to mean HOA's as well. The preemption was VERY well written in eliminating loopholes. That law has nothign to do with the US or Indiana's Constitution.

35-47-11-1 Local Regulation of Firearms
Sec. 2. Notwithstanding IC 36-1-3, a unit may not regulate in any manner the ownership, possession, sale, transfer, or transportation of firearms (as defined in IC 25-47-1-5) or ammunition except as follows:
(1) this chapter does not apply to land, buildings, or other real property owned or administered by a unit, except highways (as defined in IC 8-23-1-23) or public highways (as defined in IC 8-2.1-17-14).
(2) Notwithstanding the limitation in this section, a unit may use the unit's planning and zoning powers under IC 36-7-4 to prohibit the sale of firearms within two hundred (200) feet of a school by a person having a business that did not sell firearms within two hundred (200) feet of a school before April 1, 1994.
(3) Notwithstanding the limitation in this section, a legislative body of a unit other than a township may adopt an emergency ordinance or a unit other than a township may take other action allowed under section 6 of this chapter to regulate the sale of firearms anywhere within the unit for a period of not more than seventy - two (72) hours after the regulatory action takes effect.
36-1-2-23 Definitions of General Applicability
"Unit" = county, municipality, or township
36-1-3-5 Unit can exercise any power
(1) not expressly denied by statute.

From my reading of the Indiana preemption statute, see above, concerning local regulation of firearms a HOA is not contemplated as a unit. The general definitions section, see above, which the statute specifically references lays out only three entities or political subdivisions that are considered units. The Constitutional concerns, both state and federal, come in when a burden is placed on the property. Under the 14th Amendment "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." The potential intrusion upon the OP's property rights by the HOA could be seen as a burden on the property.

 

[rhino]

It's easy for me to say this, but I would never buy a house where I had to sign a contract that put me under the thumb of a home owner's association.

In this situation, I'd continue about my business. What's the worst that could happen? They'll send you another strongly worded letter? It's not something serious like you're letting your grass grow 1/8-inch higher than the mandated maxium length.

 

[singlestacksig]

Though I agree with your thinking on this, the problem is the contract he signed. Contract law is extremely powerful. You can and do contract rights away when you buy property that is part of a HOA. Contracts can be changed and/or broken. In this instance, if the HOA has the ability to ban OC or carry at all, the I'd be inclined that the contract is likely unenforceable in a court. Unfortunately, that isn't usually able to be determined until you go to court to get it straightened out.

But there are limits to what you can sign away in a contract..
For example you can not sign a contract saying you will work for $1 / hour...
Well, you can sign it but the employer still has to pay you Min. wage..

And I doubt a HOA could say "no inviting over Blacks" ...

 

[citizenvain]

Thanks for all the responses. About the HOA covenants… from what I’ve read in them, they are very broad and very powerful. With , if I’m reading it correctly, such wording in it the HOA may take or claim sections of your property for the common good of the community. Has anyone ever seen anything like that?

The thing is, you don’t (from my understanding) get to even view the covenants, until you close on the purchase, and by that time you’re in a room full of people making you sign mortgage papers that they don’t allow you time to read so you really do NOT have much of a choice if you want the house/property.