New BATF ruling on stabilizing braces today

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  • JAL

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    Now for another rabbit hole:

    West Virginia v. EPA, SCOTUS 2022 (6-3)
    Wikipedia does have a decent article on this one:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Virginia_v._EPA

    Decision was handed down about a week or so before (or after) the Bruen decision. Relevant to the ATF rule at hand is the court's rationale in its majority opinion that told the EPA to go suck eggs regarding the power plant emission rules it had published. The government (EPA) argued Chevron deference but the majority of the court didn't buy it as the EPA was going much to far in its rulemaking. The court invoked the Major Questions Doctrine, which holds that a vague or general delegation of authority from Congress is not enough for major rule-making. Rather, the agency must have clear statutory authorization to decide the issue. In other words, Chevron deference only goes so far and has a limit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nondelegation_doctrine#Major_questions_doctrine

    In other words, EPA didn't have clear Congressional authorization for the rules it had made regarding energy plant emissions that affected plants in West Virginia. Should be clear how this now can be very readily applied to the new Pistol Brace rules. The Government will very predictably try to argue Chevron deference, but given the decision and opinion cited above, I'd bet dollars to donuts the Major Questions Doctrine will override it citing there's no clear authority in the NFA (as amended) or the GCA for the ATF's new Pistol Brace Rules as it redefines what constitutes a rifle, especially after a decade of stating and publishing opinions on multiple occasions to the contrary.

    Even more poignant is the very recent 5th Circuit Court of Appeals en banc decision and opinion in Cargill v. Garland published on January 6th, 2023, barely two weeks ago.

    https://nclalegal.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/5th-Cir-en-banc-opinion.pdf

    It's 62 pages long, but one need only read the first four to get the summarized gist of it. The 5th Circuit, en banc, invoked the Major Questions Doctrine that ATF didn't have the statutory authority for the Bump Stock Rules. In addition, the Rule of Lenity regarding ambiguity created by the ATF after over a decade of repeatedly declaring they weren't machineguns would strike them down on its own. While the 5th Circuit decision and opinion only applies to the 5th Circuit, make some popcorn and watch the lawsuits begin in Texas along the same path with much the same arguments. Garland (DoJ) will probably file for a Writ of Cert to SCOTUS and roll the dice, but in light of Bruen, I doubt DoJ (and ATF) would prevail. At some point SCOTUS will undoubtedly have to weigh in as it's predictable some other circuit will decide in favor of DoJ and the ATF after they go court shopping for a District in a Circuit that would produce the outcome they want it to.

    Edit:
    I can guarantee the Bump Stock Rule will hit SCOTUS as there are conflicting Circuit Court jurisdictions with one or two others upholding the ATF Bump Stock Rule banning them. One of the parties in one of these Circuits will undoubtedly file for a Writ of Cert. How fast that occurs remains to be seen. SCOTUS typically weighs in to take a case when Appellate Circuits are in conflict so that you don't have laws -- especially Federal criminal laws -- being enforced in one jurisdiction but deemed unconstitutional in another. Keep in mind the Bump Stock Rule has been out for a few years. The wheels turn slowly.
     
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    INPatriot

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    I have read every page of this topic. I read every response on the Guy Relford link. I have watched all of the videos William Kirk of Washington Gun Law has posted. I perused through the Constitution. I have glanced some other law and legal papers as well.

    Many are comparing the recent bump stock decision by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals as the precedent for how this can all unfold. As I understand, only decisions issued by the Supreme Court are binding. Courts of appeal and state courts do not bind courts outside the state or circuit in which they are located. Am I correct?

    The decision rendered by the Fifth Circuit only applies to citizens of the Fifth District until/unless this were to be taken up by the SCOTUS. Is this correct?

    We are in the Seventh District. Not that this is anything to bet the farm on, but I believe there are 11 Republican appointees on the 7th Circuit and 5 Democratic appointees and one vacant spot on the court.

    Each District would need its appellate court to render a decision striking down infringement on PSBs? - OR- If an appellate court were to strike down infringement on PSBs and the case gets taken to the Supreme Court and SCOTUS decided to fall back on the previous decision then all PSBs are free and clear. Are one or the other, both, or parts of both, correct?

    I know that I should know this, but I am also not afraid to ask.

    Thank you.
     
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    tcecil88

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    I was responding to someone's post about mat gatz putting something out about the ATF. And how none of our hoosier reps have put anything out about it. Especially my rep Erin houchin
    Sorry, I should have been more clear. I did the same as you and didn't even get the automated response.
    Hopefully the new wave of Congress critters will shake up the establishment.
     

    Cavman

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    Sorry, I should have been more clear. I did the same as you and didn't even get the automated response.
    Hopefully the new wave of Congress critters will shake up the establishment.
    Got ya, yea just always infuriating when our "conservative" reps don't jump in
     

    JAL

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    I have read every page of this topic. I read every response on the Guy Relford link. I have watched all of the videos William Kirk of Washington Gun Law has posted. I perused through the Constitution. I have glanced some other law and legal papers as well.

    Many are comparing the recent bump stock decision by the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals as the precedent for how this can all unfold. As I understand, only decisions issued by the Supreme Court are binding. Courts of appeal and state courts do not bind courts outside the state or circuit in which they are located. Am I correct?

    The decision rendered by the Fifth Circuit only applies to citizens of the Fifth District until/unless this were to be taken up by the SCOTUS. Is this correct?

    We are in the Seventh District. Not that this is anything to bet the farm on, but I believe there are 11 Republican appointees on the 7th Circuit and 5 Democratic appointees and one vacant spot on the court.

    Each District would need its appellate court to render a decision striking down infringement on PSBs? - OR- If an appellate court were to strike down infringement on PSBs and the case gets taken to the Supreme Court and SCOTUS decided to fall back on the previous decision then all PSBs are free and clear. Are one or the other, both, or parts of both, correct?

    I know that I should know this, but I am also not afraid to ask.

    Thank you.
    Yes - 5th Circuit's decisions are only binding on 5th Circuit. As its decision and opinion was an en banc reconsideration, it's final within the 5th Circuit (unless overturned by SCOTUS). You can bet your bippy though that it will be cited in cases outside the 5th Circuit, which is often done as an example of how another sister jurisdiction dealt with a question of law when the appellate courts with jurisdiction haven’t decisively dealt with it. In addition, there’s typically a plea by the citing party for consistency across jurisdictions that ultimately fall under the same higher court jurisdiction. That plea can easily fall on deaf ears though. Depends on the court. How much weight citing the 5th Circuit decision would have within, for example, the 7th Circuit, depends on the case and the judge(s), and how amenable they are to the majority opinion's rationale.

    Edit:
    What I wasn't aware of in this reply is the Bump Stock Rule having been upheld in other Circuits. That virtually guarantees it will see SCOTUS. How fast? That depends. One of the parties in the Circuits with decisions already rendered must file for a Writ of Certiorari.
     
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    Tyler-The-Piker

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    ><(((((*>
     

    Ballstater98

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    I was just about to post this. Sent mine this morning.
     

    Sigblitz

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    SOUP

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    So with these emails, who should we be sending them to? Can anyone put together a quick list?

    I want to reach every representative possible…

    Also, “ATF enforcement” is going to get a lot of people, and dogs, kilt.
     

    Cameramonkey

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    So with these emails, who should we be sending them to? Can anyone put together a quick list?

    I want to reach every representative possible…

    Also, “ATF enforcement” is going to get a lot of people, and dogs, kilt.
    Most of the monkeys that represent us use contact forms for communications, and if you dont have the right address, they wont accept the letter. Basically a "STFU, I dont work for you."
     

    Cameramonkey

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    ITS A TRAP! (?) Thats interesting. And the fatality isnt to the ruling making it go away, get defeated, etc. The fatal flaw hurts us.

    TL;DR(W) You give them proof you already have a SBR according to the new ruling when you submit the details on your Form1 app.
    After 88 days, an open (unfinished) background check automatically defaults to a deny.
    When you and 4 million of your best friends all submit for the free form 1 to play by the rules, there is no way they can keep up with the load, making checks go beyond 88 days. Instant felons.

    And an ATF rep at SHOT said that an enforcement action would be taken. They dont appear to have thought out this process fully.

    So maybe its better skipping the free Form 1 and just converting to a rifle or paying the $200 for a SBR that doesnt exist yet?



    EDIT: derpending on how generous you are, this is either accidental or on purpose. :tinfoil:
     
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