Movie guns

[Scutter01]

Kind of a weird question. In movies, we frequently see the bad guys blasting away with machine guns. Now, obviously these are props and only shooting blanks, but from the way I read the NFA:

Section 5845(b) of the NFA defines “machinegun” as
“any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot,
automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the
trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part
designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and
intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of
parts from which a machinegun can be assembled

It seems like even these movie props qualify as a machine gun, blanks notwithstanding. They (generally) cannot have a plugged barrel as the gas would have nowhere to go (plus, there's usually a muzzle flash and spent casings ejected). This means that they are essentially fully-functioning machine guns under the definition of the law. How do movie producers and the ATF reconcile these to allow such items to be used for movie production? I understand that special effects can be added in later to make a plastic gun look real, but we haven't had such effects since the NFA was enacted. Some or all of these prop guns must be close enough to "real" to qualify. What am I missing?

 

[Slow Hand]

You're dead on. Far as I know, most of the functioning guns are real guns. The ones I've seen have the muzzles internally threaded and a plug with a small hole in screwed in the barrel. that allows functioning with blanks. I'm assuming the prop houses are Class III Dealers or manufacturers. Then, they can have post-86 guns to use rather than more collectible pre-86 guns. Every once in awhile you will see movie propguns for sale; even Class III stuff.

Quick search for 'movie prop gun rental' turned up this mouthwatering page:

Hand Prop Room

Check out thde 'Arsenal' Make sure to have the drool rag handy!

Doug K

 

[hippykiller]

I'm sure most full-auto guns in movies are real... I would have to guess that there are a handful of class 3 in the Hollywood area that make a killing off the studios.

 

[VUPDblue]

Pick me, Pick me!

There used to be a HUGE gun prop business in CA called Stembridge Rentals. They supplied virtually all of the guns used by the studios. They even had some one-offs that were legally on the registry. As an example, Stembridge owned the minigun that Jesse Ventura used in Predator, this is one of less than 5 transferable miniguns on the registry. Stembridge has since gone out of business and liquidated it's assets. When they folded, the C3 market was flooded with very interesting pieces, and prices. IIRC, the minigun has changed hands a couple times and usually goes for $250k, and a member on another board I frequent has the MAC that Jamie Lee Curtis dropped down the stairs in True Lies. CA even has it written into it's law books that the ban on NFA items does not apply to the studios. Now that Stembridge is gone, there are a couple smaller outfits on the Left coast that do essentially the same thing, however not all movie guns are the real deal. You'd be surprised what some of the newer CGI scripts can do for effects. That said, the glory days are gone and I fear that we'll never see the variety of hardware in movies that we once saw in the Stembridge days.

 

[indyjoe]

It seems like even these movie props qualify as a machine gun, blanks notwithstanding. They (generally) cannot have a plugged barrel as the gas would have nowhere to go (plus, there's usually a muzzle flash and spent casings ejected). This means that they are essentially fully-functioning machine guns under the definition of the law. How do movie producers and the ATF reconcile these to allow such items to be used for movie production? I understand that special effects can be added in later to make a plastic gun look real, but we haven't had such effects since the NFA was enacted. Some or all of these prop guns must be close enough to "real" to qualify. What am I missing?

We have shot many pistols that have plugged barrel front. The gas escapes through tiny holes on top of the barrel, but most goes into cycling the slide and ejecting the blank cartridge. These are specially designed to fire these blanks.

Those with flash out the front often have VERY restrictive barrels that are tiny diameter such that only gas goes forward. If a real round was installed, it would kaboom the gun. At least those are the two styles of "movie" firearms I have supervised using.

 

[Slow Hand]

Nick,
I didn't realize the Stembridge was out of business. I saw an episode of 'Shooting Gallery' awhile back where Michael Baine (sp?) went and visited a prop house. He had the chance to shoot some neat guns for popular movies. It's funny to see the Sci-Fi guns that are modern full auto with lots of mods to make them look futuristic!

Doug K

ps I posted this on another board just last night, but have you guys checked out
Main Page - imfdb :. guns in movies :. movie guns :. the internet movie firearms database

 

[curraheeguns]

Gunbroker has a plugged barrel MAC11/NINE SMG for sale right now. Im sure it was some kind of movie gun.

 

[slacker]

You're dead on. Far as I know, most of the functioning guns are real guns. The ones I've seen have the muzzles internally threaded and a plug with a small hole in screwed in the barrel. that allows functioning with blanks. I'm assuming the prop houses are Class III Dealers or manufacturers. Then, they can have post-86 guns to use rather than more collectible pre-86 guns. Every once in awhile you will see movie propguns for sale; even Class III stuff.

Quick search for 'movie prop gun rental' turned up this mouthwatering page:

Hand Prop Room

Check out thde 'Arsenal' Make sure to have the drool rag handy!

Doug K

drooooollllll

 

[VUPDblue]

The original version of Stembridge is gone, but there still exists a company under that name. I believe it is now run by decendents of the founders but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[fullauto 45]

From my experience with some movie people, the movie guns are either made to fire only blanks, or they use propane to make it look like it is firing.
I know a couple people with real registered full auto Thompson's that have a blank adapter for the barrels. They do the Bonnie and Clyde show in Louisiana every year.
The Thompson's used in a couple of James Cagney movies were real guns. I recall seeing the behind the scenes filming of one flick where he actually hid behind a brick building corner while a guy fired a 1921 Thompson at the corner. Real bullets! No joke. They hadn't got the exploding bricks or wood down then.
One guy I know in California, Mike P. in yep California, builds guns strictly for movies. He has a special license to do this. These guns are not a live fire gun. They will fire only blanks, even his mini gun in 20 and 30mm. I walked around the SAR gun show in Arizona with him once buying parts for a 20mm mini gun for a movie. He had to build six of them. But they look and feel and function just like the real thing. That is because they are, but only fire blanks. The bolts and barrels are different on his guns. That and some are made from polyurethane. Those are the drop or throw guns.
The movie "RED DAWN" used real guns modified to fire blanks. They had the barrels changed and were actual registered machineguns. Those are out and sold to people now. If I remember correct, there were 12 or 14 real guns in that movie. The rest were semi auto converted to blank guns, plastic or propane guns. Many of the belt fed guns in movies are propane fed. They make a big flame and lots of noise. And you can hid the hoses in the belt.

 

[ryanmercer]

My thoughts... they bring in someone who can legally own them... just like they do for explosions... and I know ATF agents usually go out to film sets when explosions are being done (when filming is in the u.s. anyway) to check out all paperwork and to monitor the explosion.

 

[ryanmercer]

drooooollllll

double drooooollllll

 

[Lawguns]

You also used to see for sale in Shotgun news movie guns that fired some weird caliber blank, I just don't remember. I know my dad rents his dummy guns to the movie studios in the SF area. His biggest problem now is that he can't get the parts kits sent in to California any more with out jumping through such hoops that it is not worth it. But once the dummy gun is built no body seems to care.

 

[CSK22]

wow, great topic, always had wondered about this!