Motorcycle Riders?

[melensdad]

Very true especially with the rice rockets.

Actually the HD after-market parts are more guilty of reducing visibility of motorcycles than the Japanese liter bikes. We know, factually, that loud pipes do not save lives, but that seems to be the thing that people rely on for safety when the reality is that we need to be SEEN.

Loud pipes are NOT heard by people who are about to turn left in front of a bike. Loud pipes are heard by people behind the bike, not people in front of the bike. Yet most multi vehicle accidents are caused by people who turn across the right of way of a bike in front of the bike.

Added front facing auxiliary lights ARE seen by people who are about to turn left in front of a bike and

The crotch rocket kids tend to actually light up their bikes with undercarriage LEDs, wear bright colored jackets, have bright colored bikes, and helmets that are actually visible. They just tend to ride like total idiots and, according to accident statistics, tend to kill themselves or get into accidents due to reckless riding.

 

[chezuki]

Actually the HD after-market parts are more guilty of reducing visibility of motorcycles than the Japanese liter bikes. We know, factually, that loud pipes do not save lives, but that seems to be the thing that people rely on for safety when the reality is that we need to be SEEN.

Loud pipes are NOT heard by people who are about to turn left in front of a bike. Loud pipes are heard by people behind the bike, not people in front of the bike. Yet most multi vehicle accidents are caused by people who turn across the right of way of a bike in front of the bike.

Added front facing auxiliary lights ARE seen by people who are about to turn left in front of a bike and

The crotch rocket kids tend to actually light up their bikes with undercarriage LEDs, wear bright colored jackets, have bright colored bikes, and helmets that are actually visible. They just tend to ride like total idiots and, according to accident statistics, tend to kill themselves or get into accidents due to reckless riding.

Yep. Previous owner of my Harley (sorry SD) had all but made the turn signals invisible. Front signals were leds WITHIN the headlight bucket. Rear signals were near flush with the fender and only really visible from the side.

My Wing is far more visible, with running lights in the front, rear, and on the sides of the bags and trunk. Also, corner spotlights that illuminate with the turn signals.

 

[bwframe]

Bambi seems to hear the loud pipes just fine. Seems to be pretty helpful in the sticks.

 

[chezuki]

Bambi seems to hear the loud pipes just fine. Seems to be pretty helpful in the sticks.

Bambi is slightly more vigilant than the person sitting in a climate controlled vehicle with the the windows up, trying to finish sending a text at the stoplight before turning out in front of you.

 

[melensdad]

Bambi seems to hear the loud pipes just fine. Seems to be pretty helpful in the sticks.

so you are comparing a wild animal who's daily survival instinct is to remain in a "code red" situation with distracted drivers who are focusing their attention on their cell phone, while encased in a glass cubical that insulates the outside noise from disturbing them while they sing along to Nickelback or Florida Georgia Line that is playing on their 10 speaker stereo?

Seriously go stand behind a LOUD PIPES guy, even at 100 yards you can hear that bike clearly.

Then take the SAME bike and stand 100 yards in front of it and you will barely hear that bike even if he blips his throttle.

Physics and real life accident studies prove that for oncoming traffic there is no such thing as "loud pipes saves lives" helping a rider because the doppler effect clearly shows that you don't hear the bike until it is way too late. And the most common 2 vehicle moto-accidents involve an on coming driver turning across your lane.

But to continue, and to make matters worse, take that SAME bike and face the front of it from 50 yards/150 feet while sitting in your own car because that is a realistic simulation with the bike at fairly LOW REVs just like in normal traffic. That is exactly what the oncoming driver situation is when he makes a left turn in front of a bike. That LOUD BIKE is actually not very loud and it is essentially silent and invisible to the oncoming driver.

This is actually an easy test to set up so you can provide it to yourself. Go to a large school parking lot with your loud bike and your family's car and set it up. Literally drive AT YOU BIKE with the stereo on in your car at normal volume levels, the windows up and the AC (or heater) set on medium fan. You will shock yourself on how close you get to your own bike before you hear it. You can prove it to yourself.

 

[bwframe]

so you are comparing a wild animal who's daily survival instinct is to remain in a "code red" situation with distracted drivers who are focusing their attention on their cell phone, while encased in a glass cubical that insulates the outside noise from disturbing them while they sing along to Nickelback or Florida Georgia Line that is playing on their 10 speaker stereo?

Seriously go stand behind a LOUD PIPES guy, even at 100 yards you can hear that bike clearly.

Then take the SAME bike and stand 100 yards in front of it and you will barely hear that bike even if he blips his throttle.

Physics and real life accident studies prove that for oncoming traffic there is no such thing as "loud pipes saves lives" helping a rider because the doppler effect clearly shows that you don't hear the bike until it is way too late. And the most common 2 vehicle moto-accidents involve an on coming driver turning across your lane.

But to continue, and to make matters worse, take that SAME bike and face the front of it from 50 yards/150 feet while sitting in your own car because that is a realistic simulation with the bike at fairly LOW REVs just like in normal traffic. That is exactly what the oncoming driver situation is when he makes a left turn in front of a bike. That LOUD BIKE is actually not very loud and it is essentially silent and invisible to the oncoming driver.

This is actually an easy test to set up so you can provide it to yourself. Go to a large school parking lot with your loud bike and your family's car and set it up. Literally drive AT YOU BIKE with the stereo on in your car at normal volume levels, the windows up and the AC (or heater) set on medium fan. You will shock yourself on how close you get to your own bike before you hear it. You can prove it to yourself.

I never argued any of that. I have watched deer hear me coming and run away though, often.

We cannot get complacent when riding, Thinking that anything will save us from distracted drivers or even drivers who are themselves complacent is a mistake.

All of the visuals or sound or gear we wear is no guarantee that cars will not pull into our paths. There is no substitute for having a plan to avoid those who will. Be ready to stop, be ready to maneuver, position yourself to best do both. On top of not getting ran over while doing so.

Always, know where you will go, should something find it's way into your path. Be aware of areas where this is most likely.

 

[melensdad]

All of the visuals or sound or gear we wear is no guarantee that cars will not pull into our paths.

But we do know, factually from studies, that lights do reduce accidents both from oncoming and from the rear, and we also know, again from studies, that loud bikes do nothing to prevent oncoming accidents.

 

[airhog]

But we do know, factually from studies, that lights do reduce accidents both from oncoming and from the rear, and we also know, again from studies, that loud bikes do nothing to prevent oncoming accidents.

Definitely agree on running lights as it's one of the first mods I make to a bike. However, it's important not to go overboard and think it's a solution by itself. Complacency begets us all, even under the best of circumstances.

A loud horn helps as factory ones are usually not worth much. Less yapping on the com and listening to music, but paying attention to the road helps. Enjoy the sound of loud pipes instead of listening to Nickelwhatever. They may also help draw bambi's attention.

When approaching an intersection swerve left/right to attract attention. Running lights are a big plus but eyes are sensitive to lateral movement. Lights progressively becoming larger aren't as effective and can lead to false distance judgment.

Watch the driver waiting to turn left like a hawk. Honk if unsure. Slow down and be prepared to emergency brake. Right of way means nothing. As they say, treat all cages as out to kill ya.

Even then, it's a crapshoot. Riding is probably the most dangerous activity most of us engage in on a regular basis. And it's not gonna get better.

 

[melensdad]

Definitely agree on running lights as it's one of the first mods I make to a bike. . .

When approaching an intersection swerve left/right to attract attention. Running lights are a big plus but eyes are sensitive to lateral movement. Lights progressively becoming larger aren't as effective and can lead to false distance judgment. . .

Pretty much agree on all points you make except the loud pipes part, and you really didn't push that point.

Aux lights in a triangular pattern seemed get the most attention. In a line they seemed to get the lease attention. I mounted mine on the forks. So there is a nice triangle visible from the sides of the forks to the headlamp. If someone has hand guards like on a dual sport or some ADV/Tour bikes those would make a smaller but wide triangle as the bars are typically above the headlamp on that type of scooter. But that will vary from bike to bike.

Lateral moves going toward an intersection are a good idea, moving laterally within a lane, I tend to do it in traffic, less so on the more open rural roads.

We actually have a lot of data about motorcycle crashes. We know that ABS equipped bikes tend to crash less often than bikes that don't have ABS. In fact we know that ABS bikes crash a lot less than bikes that don't have ABS. We also know that small bikes are involved in more crashes than large bikes. We know that loud pipes do not save lives. We know that the 2 main causes of fatal crashes are motorcycles crashing due to driver error and vehicles that cross into/across our paths. We know that auxiliary lights actually save lives. We know that most single vehicle moto crashes involve alcohol, and usually only very small amounts (1 drink). We know that 4 cyl-Sport bikes are death machines but large displacement V-twins are under represented in crash stats. We know that ADV-Touring bikes are also under represented in crash stats. We know that when a V-twin cruiser is involved in a crash the passenger is likely to be a female and also likely to die. We know that helmets save lives. We know that proper moto gear saves or reduces injuries, often dramatically.

This is just one of several studies that illustrate some of these facts, very clearly, but it is a huge PITA to read all this data: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/publications/research/safety/18064/18064.pdf

There is a lot of good data out of Europe, some good data out of Canada and also Australia. I don't really trust the data out of the less developed nations.

Fact is we are responsible for ourselves. We all can agree on that.

 

[airhog]

...

Fact is we are responsible for ourselves. We all can agree on that.

Amen to that.

 

[cbhausen]

Finally got my Touratech GPS mount and Quad Lock installed. It’s much nicer only having to glance down to see my navigation app instead of having to look all the way down to the handlebars or top of the stem. Less time with eyes off the road.

 

[melensdad]

Finally got my Touratech GPS mount and Quad Lock installed. It’s much nicer only having to glance down to see my navigation app instead of having to look all the way down to the handlebars or top of the stem. Less time with eyes off the road.

Nice.

I have my SPOT X and my phone (used for Navigation) mounted above my instrument cluster as well. Works great.

 

[Double T]

Harley quoted 14k in damage to the low rider s. Now to wait til Friday for the insurance adjuster to check it out. I imagine it will be totaled, as the KBB is 17k, and I can't replace it with one that has similar miles for under 20k.

 

[JCSR]

Harley quoted 14k in damage to the low rider s. Now to wait til Friday for the insurance adjuster to check it out. I imagine it will be totaled, as the KBB is 17k, and I can't replace it with one that has similar miles for under 20k.

So what's your plan? Buy back, get it fixed or hold out for replacement?

 

[Double T]

So what's your plan? Buy back, get it fixed or hold out for replacement?

I'm taking the money, going to likely sell the bars I bought to put on this winter and also sell the seat. Wife won't ride this one with me, so I'll be looking for a decent deal on a used Street Glide.

 

[JCSR]

I'm taking the money, going to likely sell the bars I bought to put on this winter and also sell the seat. Wife won't ride this one with me, so I'll be looking for a decent deal on a used Street Glide.

I think I would hold out for true replacement money. Something closer to 20K if you know what I mean.

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

Yep. Previous owner of my Harley (sorry SD) had all but made the turn signals invisible. Front signals were leds WITHIN the headlight bucket. Rear signals were near flush with the fender and only really visible from the side.

My Wing is far more visible, with running lights in the front, rear, and on the sides of the bags and trunk. Also, corner spotlights that illuminate with the turn signals.

It's all good Chez. You bought what us old guys called a true club bike. In other words a bike if seen for a short period of time cannot be described to whoever might be looking for it. It was built to not be seen. It was just how it was. Now days i ride a bike you can see from Mars.

 

[chezuki]

It's all good Chez. You bought what us old guys called a true club bike. In other words a bike if seen for a short period of time cannot be described to whoever might be looking for it. It was built to not be seen. It was just how it was. Now days i ride a bike you can see from Mars.

I mean, it did look damn cool!

 

[SkullDaddy.45]

I mean, it did look damn cool!

You looked damn cool sitting on.

 

[chezuki]

That Springer was a little lacking on cargo space though.