Misunderstanding the Conservatism of Trump's Base

[Twangbanger]

No worries. Biden is running now. Hillary and Sanders have no chance... and Biden will likely take it all in a landslide.

Biden: We don't need 'socialism' | TheHill

What are you talking about? Did you even read your own link? There is nothing in that article which says Biden is running. Biden has flatly said he's not running, and has dispelled this rumor many times. But "the dream" still lives on in social media, I guess.

Here's a more relevant article from that same publication, however...it's Eric Cantor saying Trump won't survive the primaries:

Ex-House GOP leader: Trump won't survive primaries | TheHill

Here's the excerpt which jumped out at me:

"...“There’s a real difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party and I would not say Donald Trump is reflective of the Republican Party, he’s not a conservative,” Cantor said in an interview with BBC's "Hardtalk..."

I couldn't help but notice the striking similarity to some of GPIA7R's comments on the subject:

...There's a difference between the far left and the moderate right... and they appropriately label themselves as Democrats and Republicans...I know that today's Republicans try to make themselves more approachable and cater to today's society... but they're still very different from the Democrats...

It would appear Eric Cantor is pretty in-line with you on the topic of Conservatism in the GOP. You've expounded at-length about the extent to which Trump has his followers "fooled" about his intentions. Have you considered the possibility that it's the Eric Cantor / John Boehner / Bob Dole wing of the GOP which has _you_ fooled about their intentions?

For those who are interested, what exactly has Eric Cantor been up to, lately?

Former House Majority Leader Eric Cantor takes job on Wall Street - LA Times

"...In 2015, Cantor will receive a minimum incentive payment of $1.2 million in cash and $400,000 in restricted stock, the filing said...During his congressional career, he raised more money -- $3 million -- from the securities and investment industry than any other sector, according to the Center for Responsive Politics..."

 

[IndyDave1776]

Ok, so the margin was more like 6% and Perot took 18%. I believe it.

Indeed, Trump is running in a primary unlike Perot. (Perot was/is arguably smarter.) But, do you not believe Trump is fracturing the Republican party? (Different conversation whether it has been a long time coming, or the root causes.)

I haven't heard him recently, but at one point he said he would run independently - that he is in it to win it. I think he did backtrack (if only we could "read his lips") to say he will only run as a Republican. But, he's said alot of things over the years that he didn't do. So, if he runs as 3rd party, what then?

Even if he runs as a Republican, do you really think he can beat an organized Hilary?

He artfully used that threat to run independent to get a fair shake when the establishment started trying to cheat right out of the gate. I think he probably doesn't want to clear up the mud too much there such as to keep the establishment guessing in the event of trying any further shenanigans.

I know that the prevailing narrative is that God Himself couldn't beat Hillary, but I am convinced that she isn't near the invincible foe she is presented as being. In fact, I see much of this as an attempted self-fulfilling prophecy.

 

[T.Lex]

I know that the prevailing narrative is that God Himself couldn't beat Hillary, but I am convinced that she isn't near the invincible foe she is presented as being. In fact, I see much of this as an attempted self-fulfilling prophecy.

Artfully dodged.

That wasn't my question. Do you think Trump can beat Hillary? I do not find her invincible, either. In some ways, Bernie Sanders could have more general appeal. But that's not the point.

Like Perot, Trump IMHO makes another Clinton presidency more likely. And Lord, I hope I'm wrong.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

What are you talking about? Did you even read your own link? There is nothing in that article which says Biden is running. Biden has flatly said he's not running, and has dispelled this rumor many times. But "the dream" still lives on in social media, I guess.

In your hurry to go after me, you let the sarcastic approach at which I handle news stories slip by you. The idea is... "why does Biden even bother commenting on the subject", and the cynic responds "because he's obviously running." Also noting that just last week, he said he had second thoughts about the entire situation.

Again, it says you've been around here since 2010, but I have no idea who you are, and why you've got it out for me. Get off my ass.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Artfully dodged.

That wasn't my question. Do you think Trump can beat Hillary? I do not find her invincible, either. In some ways, Bernie Sanders could have more general appeal. But that's not the point.

Like Perot, Trump IMHO makes another Clinton presidency more likely. And Lord, I hope I'm wrong.

Not intended as a dodge. I am satisfied that in a general election Trump would beat Hillary. He has a broad enough appeal to attract voters who would have more difficulty voting for some other Republicans without pissing all over the base to do it, which is the traditional problem with so-called 'moderate' (i.e., liberal) Republicans. For every place Trump would likely not line up with the base, he could very easily respond, "Read the Tenth Amendment".

 

[jamil]

Ok, so the margin was more like 6% and Perot took 18%. I believe it.

Indeed, Trump is running in a primary unlike Perot. (Perot was/is arguably smarter.) But, do you not believe Trump is fracturing the Republican party? (Different conversation whether it has been a long time coming, or the root causes.)

I haven't heard him recently, but at one point he said he would run independently - that he is in it to win it. I think he did backtrack (if only we could "read his lips") to say he will only run as a Republican. But, he's said alot of things over the years that he didn't do. So, if he runs as 3rd party, what then?

Even if he runs as a Republican, do you really think he can beat an organized Hilary?

I think rather than Trump fracturing the party, the phenomenon of his candidacy only reveals a deep fracture that already existed.

The best explanation I've heard about Trump's largely invulnerable candidacy so far, is he represents a firm middle finger against the establishment. Those pissed off people will not back off from Trump until they see a candidate they think will better fulfill the embodiment of their middle fingers against the collective Boehner party. In some states where Trump's numbers have fallen I think we're seeing some of those people start to view Cruz as a more viable middle finger. He does have a much more conservative background than Trump.

What are you talking about? Did you even read your own link? There is nothing in that article which says Biden is running. Biden has flatly said he's not running, and has dispelled this rumor many times. But "the dream" still lives on in social media, I guess.

I think G is inferring a desire to run from the article. Given Biden's apparent anti-socialism comments and the fact that Hillary seems to be headed for deep ****, Biden may be tenderizing the meat for a potential competition with Sanders.

There seems to be evidence of the Democrat leadership panicking about a potential indictment, so they don't believe she's a sure bet. When Biden backed off from throwing his hat in the ring, that was back when Hilary looked like she was going to emerge from her scandals unscathed. She had just been declared the winner of the first debate. It was right after that when Joe the Clown decided not to run. Now that Hillary's having problems, I think they're looking at potential contingencies. I think establishment Democrats hate the prospect of a Bernie Sanders presidency as much as establishment Republicans hate the prospect of Cruz or Trump.

He artfully used that threat to run independent to get a fair shake when the establishment started trying to cheat right out of the gate. I think he probably doesn't want to clear up the mud too much there such as to keep the establishment guessing in the event of trying any further shenanigans.

I know that the prevailing narrative is that God Himself couldn't beat Hillary, but I am convinced that she isn't near the invincible foe she is presented as being. In fact, I see much of this as an attempted self-fulfilling prophecy.

Trump said that he wouldn't rule out running as an Independent, initially, because he wasn't sure the Republican Party would treat him fairly. And promised that as long as the Party treats him fairly, he would not run as an independent.

 

[BugI02]

Artfully dodged.

That wasn't my question. Do you think Trump can beat Hillary? I do not find her invincible, either. In some ways, Bernie Sanders could have more general appeal. But that's not the point.

Like Perot, Trump IMHO makes another Clinton presidency more likely. And Lord, I hope I'm wrong.

I think Bernie can beat Hitlery, which means Trump won't have to

 

[T.Lex]

I think Bernie can beat Hitlery, which means Trump won't have to

Could you imagine Trump v. Sanders debates? OMG. SNL writers could take time off! Just have Darrell Hammond and Larry Sanders read the transcripts.

 

[BugI02]

I could make the argument against. Simply seeing those who are FOR Trump may be enough reason to vote against him. I've read some stuff that some establishment/chamber of commerce types are reading the tea leafs and seeing this as a two-man race between Trump and Cruz. Many of them are supporting Trump.

Some of what I have been reading has alluded that personal animosity plays a role in this, that Trump is right when he says nobody likes him. I think some of that is his lack of any desire to 'go along to get along', which makes me like him all the more. I'm having a hard time figuring which one will have the longer (or any) coattails, which I think is an important consideration also. One could argue that Ted could conceivably have just as hard a time actually governing as The Donald would. Still would like to see Cruz come out on top and have my fingers crossed that if Trump is beaten in a fair fight he would do the right thing and support the nominee.

Oh, and for those of you making so much of Trump having been a Democrat, Ronald Reagans parents were both Democrats and Reagan himself registered Democrat and was a union member and official (sreen actors guild). He did not switch his allegience to the Republican party until 1962. Far from being a shill for the Democrats of his day, his epiphany led to him doing a pretty good job as governor of Cali and as POTUS. Just sayin'

 

[BugI02]

In your hurry to go after me, you let the sarcastic approach at which I handle news stories slip by you. The idea is... "why does Biden even bother commenting on the subject", and the cynic responds "because he's obviously running." Also noting that just last week, he said he had second thoughts about the entire situation.

Again, it says you've been around here since 2010, but I have no idea who you are, and why you've got it out for me. Get off my ass.

View attachment 44442 rrrowwll

 

[Twangbanger]

In your hurry to go after me, you let the sarcastic approach at which I handle news stories slip by you...I have no idea who you are, and why you've got it out for me. Get off my ass.

You're right, your sarcasm went right over my head! Aside from your apparent hardon for Trump supporters, I know nothing about you...other than your threads always begin with the word "Breaking," and I usually pass them over. I guess I'll have to get more acquainted with your stuff in the future.

Could you imagine Trump v. Sanders debates? OMG. SNL writers could take time off! Just have Darrell Hammond and Larry Sanders read the transcripts.

Putting aside the humorous possibilities, if Bernie were to pull this thing off, it would be a debate nightmare for the GOP...and by extension, a general nightmare for the rest of us. If a weak-kneed GOP nominee like Rubio or Jeb emerges from the Smoky Back Room, it's conceivable Bernie would actually pull them to the left. I can easily envision Rubio or Jeb falling all over themselves in a debate, trying to appear "compassionate." Hillary is unlikeable; but Bernie is like that eccentric, blustery uncle who brings all the kids cool toys on Christmas (when everybody else is buying them tube socks). People eat that Santa Claus sxxt right up. In the first debate, he'd pillory "Corporate America" and promise to tax them to give you free college, while Bush would be standing there talking about more tax breaks for those companies to create jobs, and generally getting his pants wrapped around his ankles. Rubio wouldn't fare much better; by the second debate, he'd have some kind of "family tax credit college plan" of his own.

 

[jamil]

You're right, your sarcasm went right over my head! Aside from your apparent hardon for Trump supporters, I know nothing about you...other than your threads always begin with the word "Breaking," and I usually pass them over. I guess I'll have to get more acquainted with your stuff in the future.



Putting aside the humorous possibilities, if Bernie were to pull this thing off, it would be a debate nightmare for the GOP...and by extension, a general nightmare for the rest of us. If a weak-kneed GOP nominee like Rubio or Jeb emerges from the Smoky Back Room, it's conceivable Bernie would actually pull them to the left. I can easily envision Rubio or Jeb falling all over themselves in a debate, trying to appear "compassionate." Hillary is unlikeable; but Bernie is like that eccentric, blustery uncle who brings all the kids cool toys on Christmas (when everybody else is buying them tube socks). People eat that Santa Claus sxxt right up. In the first debate, he'd pillory "Corporate America" and promise to tax them to give you free college, while Bush would be standing there talking about more tax breaks for those companies to create jobs, and generally getting his pants wrapped around his ankles. Rubio wouldn't fare much better; by the second debate, he'd have some kind of "family tax credit college plan" of his own.

And who doesn't feel sorry for the Aardvark?