Marines introductory combat pistol training

[the1kidd03]

I just came across these. I have some reservations about the videos, but I thought it might still be fun for those on here to analyze or take in, none the less.

[video=youtube;csQmiwOsydw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csQmiwOsydw[/video]

 

[the1kidd03]

[video=youtube;iwZwwyPtp7c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwZwwyPtp7c[/video]

 

[Jackson]

I have some reservations about the videos, but ...

What are your reservations?

 

[the1kidd03]

What are your reservations?

Nothing really. I was at my office earlier and couldn't watch the video with sound. Now with sound some things make more sense. Without sound it seemed like sort of a PR video or something.

 

[Jackson]

Based on this video, can/should I assume the Marines are teaching a "thumbs forward" type of grip for handguns? Do the Marines teach the same standard set of pistol shooting and marksmanship practices across the board, or is it specific to the unit or group? Is there a Marine manual on pistol marksmanship? (As you can see, I know very little about Marine or Military training.)

 

[the1kidd03]

Based on this video, can/should I assume the Marines are teaching a "thumbs forward" type of grip for handguns? Do the Marines teach the same standard set of pistol shooting and marksmanship practices across the board, or is it specific to the unit or group? Is there a Marine manual on pistol marksmanship? (As you can see, I know very little about Marine or Military training.)

Yes. At the basic level Marines are taught what's depicted in the video. There may not be as much emphasis on enforcing small details such as thumbs being forward, but it is taught. I'm not sure if there is an actual "manual" per say. Training and who can teach is very structured and uniform. Training in the school fashion is pretty consistent and uniform. Outside of official schools and in your unit additional training may be more in depth and much faster pased but you still apply the basics you learn in official schools within reason.

I simply shared these videos after they were linked to me on youtube because I used to see a lot of discussions here which included a "stereotype" (for lack of better term) of military training being behind the times or lacking. This type of curriculum has been taught since at least 03-04ish time frame that I know of. They may have been slow to adopt it from when certain techniques became the predominant method, but they certainly aren't as out of date as many seem to believe.

 

[the1kidd03]

Notice the holster being used at the beginning of video #2?

 

[the1kidd03]

Apparently there is an actual manual. Can't say I've ever actually seen the manual itself in its entirety.
http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/MCRP 3-01B Pistol Marksmanship.pdf

 

[Jackson]

Apparently there is an actual manual. Can't say I've ever actually seen the manual itself in its entirety.
http://www.marines.mil/Portals/59/Publications/MCRP 3-01B Pistol Marksmanship.pdf

Thanks for posting. The manual covers both a thumbs forward grip in association with an isosceles stance, and a thumbs high grip with a weaver stance (grouped together like that by the manual). I didn't read it in depth, but it looks like both are acceptable methods to the Marine Corps.

I like how the manual refers to the shooter as "a Marine" or "the Marine" rather than "the shooter" or whathaveyou.

 

[Jackson]

And it has a whole section on one-hand manipluations. This is really pretty neat. I'm going to read the whole thing when I get some time. I wonder if the Army has such a manual and if so, is it much different?

 

[theblackknight]

Here's some more brilliance

<em>[video=youtube;XiXxZqiJZac]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiXxZqiJZac&amp;feature=player_embedded[/video]


Hopefully the 3 gun team can un**** a lot of the marksmanship program, but I doubt it.

 

[the1kidd03]

And it has a whole section on one-hand manipluations. This is really pretty neat. I'm going to read the whole thing when I get some time. I wonder if the Army has such a manual and if so, is it much different?

I don't know. I have friends in the Army, but I've never really talked to them much about training differences.

 

[the1kidd03]

Here's some more brilliance

<em>[video=youtube;XiXxZqiJZac]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiXxZqiJZac&amp;feature=player_embedded[/video]


Hopefully the 3 gun team can un**** a lot of the marksmanship program, but I doubt it.

Don't put much stock in that video. It's a marketing/PR video. Made specifically to attract attention. That's not the end all of pistol training in the Corps.

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

The way the story goes....

My nephew, a Marine, with an armorer job, has been asked a few times by the "range master" (I do apologize for not knowing the correct USMC term!) to assist in demonstrating, teaching, and assisting those on the handgun range at Quantico. Basically the thumbs / forward isosceles. Also in handgun presentation.

His dad, my B-I-L is a federal LEO with much much much handgun training behind him. He has learned a lot from his dad's teaching...

I wish I could verify the above - I think we all know how stories are embellished, especially since it was a dad bragging about his boy...

This ends my Cool Story, Bro.

-J-

 

[ViperJock]

Tag

 

[churchmouse]

Interesting stuff. The drill has changed a lot since I was put through the drills by military personnel.

 

[churchmouse]

Notice the holster being used at the beginning of video #2?

Blackhawk.........

 

[the1kidd03]

The way the story goes....

My nephew, a Marine, with an armorer job, has been asked a few times by the "range master" (I do apologize for not knowing the correct USMC term!) to assist in demonstrating, teaching, and assisting those on the handgun range at Quantico. Basically the thumbs / forward isosceles. Also in handgun presentation.

His dad, my B-I-L is a federal LEO with much much much handgun training behind him. He has learned a lot from his dad's teaching...

I wish I could verify the above - I think we all know how stories are embellished, especially since it was a dad bragging about his boy...

This ends my Cool Story, Bro.

-J-

Yes, the high tang grip, thumbs forward isosceles is the standard basics they teach for pistol. Armorers work alongside the PMIs and other range MOSs quite a bit, so it's certainly a feasible situation/story. I assisted some PMIs on rifle range a couple times too. I'd have no reason not to believe it. Keeping in mind that he may not actually be "teaching" a class rather than just assisting in critiquing Marines in the training, but even that's not impossible. Doing things outside of your specific MOS is not uncommon, it's just not "preferred" I guess you could say. As long as you're knowledgeable/capable of doing the job then, sure.

If I remember correctly, Quantico...or somewhere in that region of the country's bases, is the home of the firearms research and/or training development group. Last I knew, they were heavily focused on constantly improving pistol training, and firearms training overall, to make it much more realistic. I think they were actually testing/considering the merits of competition style training to improve fast paced manipulations. They do it now sort of, just not in a timed fashion really like competitions. I tried to find an article on this, but couldn't dig it up quickly.

Anyhow, that again is my point in posting this mostly; to demonstrate the military is not as behind the times as they were decades ago.

 

[the1kidd03]

Blackhawk.........

yep. The "evil" serpa

 

[Indy_Guy_77]

Yes, the high tang grip, thumbs forward isosceles is the standard basics they teach for pistol. Armorers work alongside the PMIs and other range MOSs quite a bit, so it's certainly a feasible situation/story. I assisted some PMIs on rifle range a couple times too. I'd have no reason not to believe it. Keeping in mind that he may not actually be "teaching" a class rather than just assisting in critiquing Marines in the training, but even that's not impossible. Doing things outside of your specific MOS is not uncommon, it's just not "preferred" I guess you could say. As long as you're knowledgeable/capable of doing the job then, sure.

If I remember correctly, Quantico...or somewhere in that region of the country's bases, is the home of the firearms research and/or training development group. Last I knew, they were heavily focused on constantly improving pistol training, and firearms training overall, to make it much more realistic. I think they were actually testing/considering the merits of competition style training to improve fast paced manipulations. They do it now sort of, just not in a timed fashion really like competitions. I tried to find an article on this, but couldn't dig it up quickly.

Anyhow, that again is my point in posting this mostly; to demonstrate the military is not as behind the times as they were decades ago.

My nephew is stationed at 8th & I...

They're down at Q all the time test firing everything they repair.