IUPUI Question

[ryanmercer]

I picked a friend up for dinner at work yesterday... when I went to drop them off they were parked in an IUPUI student lot and wanted me to drive them up to their car... I did so but was a bit hesitant as I was armed. They then wanted to chit-chat when I really wanted them out of my truck so I could get out of the parking lot.

I was in violation, wasn't I? If I have to do that again I'll circle around the block an extra time while I unload and put it into my safe under my seat...

How would you have handled the situation? "Please get the ^!@% out of my car at the light so I don't go to jail!" hahaha

 

[Soundslikejosh]

In short, no, you weren't in violation of anything. First off, IUPUI is a post-secondary education facility, and does not fit the definition of "school." Second, even if IUPUI were a "school" you can pick up/drop a person off while armed, the caveat is that you are to remain in your vehicle. I know I haven't provided citation, but I am sure someone else will jump in here and provide the code reference. I don't know which code it is, but I have seen it presented on this forum before.

Regards,
Josh

 

[ryanmercer]

In short, no, you weren't in violation of anything. First off, IUPUI is a post-secondary education facility, and does not fit the definition of "school." Second, even if IUPUI were a "school" you can pick up/drop a person off while armed, the caveat is that you are to remain in your vehicle. I know I haven't provided citation, but I am sure someone else will jump in here and provide the code reference. I don't know which code it is, but I have seen it presented on this forum before.

Regards,
Josh

That makes me feel a little better

 

[kludge]

That is the general consensus, BUT I don't believe there is any case law to back it up.

 

[rhino]

The quote below from the IC clearly shows the exemption for people who are dropping/retrieving someone from a school, as Josh mentioned.

There's really no doubt that the "school" restrictions apply only to K-12 and some daycares. That's how "school" is used in every other part of Indiana law and regulation, so there is no reason to expect it is different here. Furthermore, no one ever gets arrested when they get "caught" with a gun on a college campus (in the absence of some actual crime being committed). In fact, the IUPUI campus police will simply escort you to where you can lock your gun in a locker, then retrieve it when you leave campus if they know you are armed for some reason. We know this because a former IUPUI cop explained it to us in another topic on INGO (use the search function if you want to read about it in his words). Additional evidence is the widely publicized debacle when IU (Bloomington) decided to ban students from banning firearms on campus, which eventually extended to staff and then faculty as well. If it were against the law or if anyone even suspected it might be against the law, the gyrations they completed to "ban" guns on their campus would have been unnecessary.

Find a case where someone was arrested solely for possessing an otherwise legally possessed firearm on a college campus. You can't because it hasn't happened, because it's not against the law. If you can find a case where someone was arrested, it was just one among many thousands (or more) of illegitimate arrests for breaking non-existent laws and you won't find a conviction attached to it.

<A name=IC35-47-9>IC 35-47-9
Chapter 9. Possession of Firearms on School Property and School Buses


<A name=IC35-47-9-1>IC 35-47-9-1
Exemptions from chapter
Sec. 1. This chapter does not apply to the following:
(1) A:
(A) federal;
(B) state; or
(C) local;
law enforcement officer.
(2) A person who has been employed or authorized by:
(A) a school; or
(B) another person who owns or operates property being used by a school for a school function;
to act as a security guard, perform or participate in a school function, or participate in any other activity authorized by a school.
(3) A person who:
(A) may legally possess a firearm; and
(B) possesses the firearm in a motor vehicle that is being operated by the person to transport another person to or from a school or a school function.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.
<A name=IC35-47-9-2>IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.
As added by P.L.140-1994, SEC.11.

<A name=IC35-47-9-2>

 

[Paul]

If you went to IUPUI, you can be kicked out for a gun. But having the gun is against the colleges rule, not the state. I believe, not 100% sure though.

 

[Tommy2Tone]

so in the eyes of the state i could legally leave my gun in the car while i am in classes, but such a thing could be against school rules? I havent bothered to look at the schools rule on in yet because i dont have my LTCH yet.

 

[indyjoe]

so in the eyes of the state i could legally leave my gun in the car while i am in classes, but such a thing could be against school rules? I havent bothered to look at the schools rule on in yet because i dont have my LTCH yet.

Legally, you can even carry at a college, since it isn't a "school" by legal definition. Much the same as being able to legally carry at work, but subject to being fired if found out and against the rules. Just like a college can expel you if they desire.

 

[Denny347]

The quote below from the IC clearly shows the exemption for people who are dropping/retrieving someone from a school, as Josh mentioned.

There's really no doubt that the "school" restrictions apply only to K-12 and some daycares. That's how "school" is used in every other part of Indiana law and regulation, so there is no reason to expect it is different here. Furthermore, no one ever gets arrested when they get "caught" with a gun on a college campus (in the absence of some actual crime being committed). In fact, the IUPUI campus police will simply escort you to where you can lock your gun in a locker, then retrieve it when you leave campus if they know you are armed for some reason. We know this because a former IUPUI cop explained it to us in another topic on INGO (use the search function if you want to read about it in his words). Additional evidence is the widely publicized debacle when IU (Bloomington) decided to ban students from banning firearms on campus, which eventually extended to staff and then faculty as well. If it were against the law or if anyone even suspected it might be against the law, the gyrations they completed to "ban" guns on their campus would have been unnecessary.

<A name=IC35-47-9-2>

Yeah, that was I. The IUPUI Police will just direct you to lock it up while on campus but that would be the most that would happen. Not likely you would be kicked out or anything like that unless you were doing something dumb with it. But being a law abiding CCW ,like most of us are, will not be bothered. I was working during a Guss Macker basketball tourney on campus one time (11yrs ago) when an inner city dweller began playing. While he was playing his Hi-point fell out of his back pocket onto the court. He had a permit so he was escorted to the gun locker to secure it. He was scolded on the merits of carrying in that manner but that was it. Now I cannot say the same thing for the sheeply student body or some of the professors. Some students might faint at the sight of a pistol and a few of the professors didn't want us entering their classroom armed (while in uniform no less). Needless to say, they had little choice since it really wasn't "their" classroom. Most of the Police officers there are very conservative and pro gun. If you are not doing something stupid you will be fine.

 

[Bill of Rights]

In short, no, you weren't in violation of anything. First off, IUPUI is a post-secondary education facility, and does not fit the definition of "school." Second, even if IUPUI were a "school" you can pick up/drop a person off while armed, the caveat is that you are to remain in your vehicle. I know I haven't provided citation, but I am sure someone else will jump in here and provide the code reference. I don't know which code it is, but I have seen it presented on this forum before.

Regards,
Josh

Hi. I'm "someone else".

IC 20-33-8-5
"School property"
Sec. 5. As used in this chapter, "school property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by a school corporation.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure owned or rented by a school corporation.

IC 20-18-2-16
"School corporation"
Sec. 16. (a) "School corporation", for purposes of this title (except IC 20-20-33, IC 20-26-1 through IC 20-26-5, IC 20-26-7, IC 20-30-8, and IC 20-43), means a public school corporation established by Indiana law. The term includes a:
(1) school city;
(2) school town;
(3) school township;
(4) consolidated school corporation;
(5) metropolitan school district;
(6) township school corporation;
(7) county school corporation;
(8) united school corporation; or
(9) community school corporation.
(b) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-26-1 through IC 20-26-5 and IC 20-26-7, has the meaning set forth in IC 20-26-2-4.
(c) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-20-33 and IC 20-30-8, includes a charter school (as defined in IC 20-24-1-4).
(d) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-43, has the meaning set forth in IC 20-43-1-23.

Post-secondary institutions are not listed, therefore not covered. A non-student/non-employee could technically OC in any building or on any outside portion of the campus without fear, so long as when he/she was confronted by campus police and told to leave, he/she did so. To refuse is to invite a trespassing charge, but this is the same as if you're told to leave and are unarmed.

IANAL, TINLA, and IDSAAHIELN disclaimers apply.

Blessings,
B

 

[ryanmercer]

Awesome... from reading it I was under the impression as it is a place of education, it is unlawful.

• S: (n) school (an educational institution) "the school was founded in 1900"

 

[kludge]

IC 20-33-8-5
"School property"
Sec. 5. As used in this chapter, "school property" means the following:
(1) A building or other structure owned or rented by a school corporation.
(2) The grounds adjacent to and owned or rented in common with a building or other structure owned or rented by a school corporation.

IC 20-18-2-16
"School corporation"
Sec. 16. (a) "School corporation", for purposes of this title (except IC 20-20-33, IC 20-26-1 through IC 20-26-5, IC 20-26-7, IC 20-30-8, and IC 20-43), means a public school corporation established by Indiana law. The term includes a:
(1) school city;
(2) school town;
(3) school township;
(4) consolidated school corporation;
(5) metropolitan school district;
(6) township school corporation;
(7) county school corporation;
(8) united school corporation; or
(9) community school corporation.
(b) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-26-1 through IC 20-26-5 and IC 20-26-7, has the meaning set forth in IC 20-26-2-4.
(c) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-20-33 and IC 20-30-8, includes a charter school (as defined in IC 20-24-1-4).
(d) "School corporation", for purposes of IC 20-43, has the meaning set forth in IC 20-43-1-23.

(emphasis mine)

Sorry to belabor the point but an anti-gun prosecutor can charge you with anything he likes, and then argue that the definition of school in Title 20 is for Title 20, and that "school" as used in Title 35 is up to interpretation, at which point he points out that since "school" is not defined for Title 35 the dictionary definition is what was intended when the law was written.

Bottom line, you take your chances. I recommend anyone considering it spend a few bucks and speak with competent counsel (like Bryan Ciyou).

That said, I carried every day to IUPUI after getting my licence.

 

[rhino]

Denny347 ... thank you for joining the conversation (and for being a rational, thinking human being while you worked for IUPUI campus police!).

Bill o' Right ... thanks for the documentation!

 

[Subystomper]

No Worries

My law books say all they can do if they become aware of you possesing a weapon on their property is ask you to exit the premisses at once which you are not obligated to do so until they have alerted proper authorities and the authorities ask you to exit the premisses. Only then are you obligated to do so. The only exception to this is if the security person you are dealing with is deputised in which case you should leave at once. I would highly recommend leaving at first sight of any security moving in your dirrection just to avoid any issues not worth dealing with. If you are an IUPUI student then they could kick you out of school for posessing a weapon.

 

[cosermann]

No law prohibits this. However, I believe IUPUI PD tries to keep all weapons off campus with the exception of officers, so you'd be asked to leave if your concealed pistol was detected.

Campus policy prohibits faculty/staff/students from carrying, so a faculty/staff/student person would likely get fired or expelled.

I know that on the Bloomington campus, licensed staff COULD CARRY up to about the mid 1990's when the policy was changed.

We should push for a state law on this.

 

[ryanmercer]

No law prohibits this. However, I believe IUPUI PD tries to keep all weapons off campus with the exception of officers, so you'd be asked to leave if your concealed pistol was detected.

Campus policy prohibits faculty/staff/students from carrying, so a faculty/staff/student person would likely get fired or expelled.

I know that on the Bloomington campus, licensed staff COULD CARRY up to about the mid 1990's when the policy was changed.

We should push for a state law on this.

I believe Utah protects citizens on campuses with their laws

 

[Soundslikejosh]

No law prohibits this. However, I believe IUPUI PD tries to keep all weapons off campus with the exception of officers, so you'd be asked to leave if your concealed pistol was detected.

Campus policy prohibits faculty/staff/students from carrying, so a faculty/staff/student person would likely get fired or expelled.

I know that on the Bloomington campus, licensed staff COULD CARRY up to about the mid 1990's when the policy was changed.

We should push for a state law on this.

We have. It died last year after surviving one or two rounds. Those who know more about the issue can add details. I know that I got a reply from my rep saying that the issue was killed a few days before my email.

 

[cosermann]

We have. It died last year after surviving one or two rounds. Those who know more about the issue can add details. I know that I got a reply from my rep saying that the issue was killed a few days before my email.

I found out about it the DAY AFTER it failed. Apparently, I'm not in the loop. If I recall correctly it was sponsored by a rep down around Bedford way. I sent him an email (don't see a copy of it) and was told it failed by ONE VOTE! If Mitch is re-elected (or Andy Horning) we must try again! The libs don't give up, why should we?

 

[VUPDblue]

I spend quite a bit of time at Riley on the IUPUI campus, and I have carried there almost every time. I will continue to do so, especially in light of the recent robbery/assault incidents which have taken place IN THE RILEY GARAGE! Of course, I don't think those 5'8" 160# thugs would mess with ME, but I choose to arm myself just in case....

 

[Bill of Rights]

I found out about it the DAY AFTER it failed. Apparently, I'm not in the loop. If I recall correctly it was sponsored by a rep down around Bedford way. I sent him an email (don't see a copy of it) and was told it failed by ONE VOTE! If Mitch is re-elected (or Andy Horning) we must try again! The libs don't give up, why should we?

Sen. Nugent told me it would be reintroduced this session as well. INGO will be in the loop as much as I am.

Blessings,
B