Is the 6.5 Grendel the Perfect Round?

[dross]

Accurate. Low recoil. Good varmint round. Good medium game round. Efficient. Good ballistics from short barrels. Good long range ballistics. Works in AR platform. Long barrel life.

Considering that ammunition is a series of tradeoffs, is this as good as it gets for an all-around cartridge?

 

[ATM]

Probably.

If I had more convenient access to a long range, I'd be better able to justify the cost.

 

[melensdad]

is it perfect? Not sure I would say that. But it is probably the perfect AR15 round if you want to maximize the potential of the AR platform. It has pretty good short barrel performance but there are some that are more efficient with short barrels, it has great long range potential. In fact out past 250 yards there is nothing that can match the Grendel out of the AR15 platform guns.

 

[42769vette]

no not the best. imo the 260 is the best. decent barrel life, great ballistics, kill most anything in north america, runs out of a ar, basically does everything the grendal does just a little better

 

[42769vette]

In fact out past 250 yards there is nothing that can match the Grendel out of the AR15 platform guns.

we will have to agree to dissagree


see above post unless your considering the ar15 and ar10 diffrent platforms.

 

[sloughfoot]

NOBODY uses the 6.5 Grendel in highpower competition. If you could push the bullet faster, it would be viable. But the case is too small for enough powder to do the job with 140 to 142 grain bullets.

The Grendel necked down to 6mm is a whole nuther animal. 2850FPS with the 105 AMAX is pretty impressive at 600 yards. It is called the 6mm AR. This cartridge is fired out of the AR15 platform and outperforms the 6.5 Grendel.

Neither cartridge is a viable 1000 yard cartridge. The 243 with 115's and the 260 with 142's are far better. Whether out of the AR10 or bolt gun.

I have never seen a 6.5 Grendel on the firing line at 1000 yards. There are just too many better options.

 

[ATM]

I'd like to see some comparisons of all-around performance values for some of the top rounds rather than focus too heavily on any one particular aspect or use.

Some rounds will score better on paper or deliver better energy on target, etc. within a given range window, but picking a "best of most values" overall cartridge if you could only have one for an AR would be interesting.

 

[42769vette]

I'd like to see some comparisons of all-around performance values for some of the top rounds rather than focus too heavily on any one particular aspect or use.

Some rounds will score better on paper or deliver better energy on target, etc. within a given range window, but picking a "best of most values" overall cartridge if you could only have one for an AR would be interesting.

that would be interesting, i cant think of one area where the grendal would beat the 260 besides posibably barrel life.

on paper targets we will call it a tie since both cartriges are capable of amazing accuracy. i have a 260 that shot a 5 shot group at 100 yds of .36 outside to outside making it .1 center to center. im sure likwise can be found for the grendal.

the 260 would transfer more energey. it will shoot the same bullet faster.

component avaibility the 260 would win. 308 brass is everywhere and they shoot the same bullets.

barrel life the grendal would probably win.

all and all i believe the 260 is the worlds most under appriciated cartrige

 

[shooter521]

see above post unless your considering the ar15 and ar10 diffrent platforms.

Dunno about the rest of these guys, but I sure would. Different size receiver, different parts, different mags.

If we're talking about the merits of various rounds that can be stuffed into an AR-15 sized platform using the .223 mags, then .260, .243, etc wouldn't be in the running.

 

[42769vette]

Dunno about the rest of these guys, but I sure would. Different size receiver, different parts, different mags.

If we're talking about the merits of various rounds that can be stuffed into an AR-15 sized platform using the .223 mags, then .260, .243, etc wouldn't be in the running.

i understand they are diffrent parts but i consider them in the same group due to the same function. if narrowing all competition to ar15 rifles then sure the grendel would be probably the best.

from the op i took the fact that the 6.5 grendal will run in the ar15 platform as a bonus not a qualifier for "the perfect round"

 

[Leo]

42769vette made a point I'll second. The .260 is an under appreciated round. It is very similar ballistics to the 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser, but the .260 feed reliably in the same bolt action rifles as a .243 and .308. Three of my .308 rifles wore a .260 barrel at least some of their life.

I really want an excuse to try a 6.5 grendle in an AR chassis match rifle, but have not looked into it yet. I was surprised to hear they have not been popular with the highpower rifle community.

 

[42769vette]

42769vette made a point I'll second. The .260 is an under appreciated round. It is very similar ballistics to the 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser, but the .260 feed reliably in the same bolt action rifles as a .243 and .308. Three of my .308 rifles wore a .260 barrel at least some of their life.

I really want an excuse to try a 6.5 grendle in an AR chassis match rifle, but have not looked into it yet. I was surprised to hear they have not been popular with the highpower rifle community.

i think most grendles have a slower twist barrels for shooting a little lighter bullets. lighter bullets are not what the highpower comunity wants. also the 6.5 grendle has a slower bullet speed than the other popular 6.5 cartriges avaible

 

[melensdad]

...unless your considering the ar15 and ar10 diffrent platforms.

I think EVERYONE considers the AR15 and the AR10 to be completely different platforms.

To argue they are the same would be like suggesting that a Ruger Mini-14 is the same thing as a Springfield M1A. That makes no sense either.

NOBODY uses the 6.5 Grendel in highpower competition. ... The Grendel necked down to 6mm is a whole nuther animal. 2850FPS with the 105 AMAX is pretty impressive at 600 yards. It is called the 6mm AR. This cartridge is fired out of the AR15 platform and outperforms the 6.5 Grendel...

Agreed for competition there are wildcats that are better than the Grendel but I presumed (perhaps incorrectly) that this thread was about PRODUCTION cartridges.

...unless your considering the ar15 and ar10 diffrent platforms.

Dunno about the rest of these guys, but I sure would. Different size receiver, different parts, different mags.

If we're talking about the merits of various rounds that can be stuffed into an AR-15 sized platform using the .223 mags, then .260, .243, etc wouldn't be in the running.

That is the same way I took it.

i think most grendles have a slower twist barrels for shooting a little lighter bullets. lighter bullets are not what the highpower comunity wants. also the 6.5 grendle has a slower bullet speed than the other popular 6.5 cartriges avaible

Right but is this thread about HIGHPOWER competition? I think not. Its about a good all around round. Sure there are faster 6.5 rounds than the Grendel but they don't fit in an AR15 size action, they are all longer. Heck look at the old Swede 6.5 rounds they are nearly 100 years old and rival modern rounds like the 6.5 Creedmore, which beats out the 260 Rem, etc. but all those are longer action cartridges. I think you are comparing apples to oranges.

Still its really hard to argue, based on the premise of the ORIGINAL POST that the 6.5 Grendel is nothing short of a great round.

 

[42769vette]

.

To argue they are the same would be like suggesting that a Ruger Mini-14 is the same thing as a Springfield M1A. That makes no sense either.

not quite but it is like saying the mini 14 and mini 30 are the same platform. mabye im on my own on this, but the point still remains that i thought the ar15 platform was a bonus to the perfect caliber not a qualifier to the perfect caliber

 

[melensdad]

not quite but it is like saying the mini 14 and mini 30 are the same platform. mabye im on my own on this, but the point still remains that i thought the ar15 platform was a bonus to the perfect caliber not a qualifier to the perfect caliber

Sorry but you are clearly wrong in your logic.

To compare the AR15 to the AR10 is actually like comparing the MINI 14 to the M1A. They are different calibers and different platforms.

To compare the MINI 14 to the MINI 30 is like comparing the AR15 chambered in 223 to the AR15 chambered in 7.62x39. They are the same platform, different caliber.

The ORIGINAL POST qualified the perfect round (according to the poster) as low recoil, good ballistics out of a short barrel, good ballistics at long range, good for varmints, good for medium game, and fitting the AR (presumably AR15) platform. So based on that criteria I think its pretty clear that a qualifier was AR15 platform, but until the OP reposts I guess we'll have to guess on that point.

 

[sloughfoot]

Accurate. Low recoil. Good varmint round. Good medium game round. Efficient. Good ballistics from short barrels. Good long range ballistics. Works in AR platform. Long barrel life.

Considering that ammunition is a series of tradeoffs, is this as good as it gets for an all-around cartridge?

Re-reading the original post, I see nothing here that I can disagree with.

( I still prefer the 6mm AR as an all-around cartridge)

Thanks for keeping the thread on its track melonsdad.....

 

[sloughfoot]

42769vette made a point I'll second. The .260 is an under appreciated round. It is very similar ballistics to the 6.5 X 55 Swedish Mauser, but the .260 feed reliably in the same bolt action rifles as a .243 and .308. Three of my .308 rifles wore a .260 barrel at least some of their life.

I really want an excuse to try a 6.5 grendle in an AR chassis match rifle, but have not looked into it yet. I was surprised to hear they have not been popular with the highpower rifle community.

Leo, the 6.5 Grendel would be OK at 200 and 300 but would fall on its face at 600 because of inferior ballistics. Case capacity is just too small for the bullet weight. The 6mm BR failed for the same reasons plus others. I shot with you in the last century when folks were trying to make that work.....

Check this out....6mm AR Home Page

 

[dross]

To me, one of the fascinating things about studying the ballistics charts of various rounds is the tradeoffs.

For instance, comparing the 260 to the Grendel. No doubt that the 260 outperforms the Grendel. At the price of more recoil, less barrel life, and a longer action required.

I'm not adding or detracting from whatever value you might give to those downsides, just pointing out they exist.

One of my favorite rounds is the 7mm 08 because it also has a great balance of the different characteristics. The 30 06 is a fantastic round for the same reasons.

What I like about the Grendel is that it does all that on the lower end of the spectrum.

I probably put a lot more value than some on low recoil. I'm not particularly recoil sensitive, but I'm a simply a better shot the lower recoil the round has. It's just one less thing to have to deal with.

I also like the idea of having one light, handy goto rifle to always have around.

I'm hoping to someday have a CZ 527 carbine converted to 6.5 Grendel. Seems like the perfect rifle to grab that would do an adequate job for anything you needed it for.

 

[Leo]

Good stuff posted here. Thanks for the 6mm info Sloughfoot. LOts of good lots of interesting cartridge innovation to maximize the little AR rifle. I see a project coming up in my future.

 

[melensdad]

To me, one of the fascinating things about studying the ballistics charts of various rounds is the tradeoffs.

For instance, comparing the 260 to the Grendel. No doubt that the 260 outperforms the Grendel. At the price of more recoil, less barrel life, and a longer action required.

I'm not adding or detracting from whatever value you might give to those downsides, just pointing out they exist.

One of my favorite rounds is the 7mm 08 because it also has a great balance of the different characteristics. The 30 06 is a fantastic round for the same reasons.

What I like about the Grendel is that it does all that on the lower end of the spectrum.

I probably put a lot more value than some on low recoil. I'm not particularly recoil sensitive, but I'm a simply a better shot the lower recoil the round has. It's just one less thing to have to deal with.

I also like the idea of having one light, handy goto rifle to always have around.

I'm hoping to someday have a CZ 527 carbine converted to 6.5 Grendel. Seems like the perfect rifle to grab that would do an adequate job for anything you needed it for.

I also can easily agree to all of this.

Take a 6.5 Grendel out to any shooting range and from 100 to 1000 yards you can get hits, it may not be a competition grade round at the long ranges but it will get you there and give you reasonable performance. I'm getter better than 1/2MOA out of one of my Grendel rifles at 200+ yards.

Take the 6.5 Grendel out into the back country and any game up to 500 or 600 pounds is in serious threat of losing its life. 400 yards on a bull elk and the round is a proven one-shot through-and-through killer. Hogs, bears, deer have all been taken at short and long hunting ranges.

Set up over a prairie dog filled field and pop away from several hundred yards away without busting your shoulder, even after a long day of shooting the 6.5 Grendel.

Use 6.5 Grendel a short carbine AR in a tactical match and the performance is there for that task too, ditto for CQB or HD situations. This little round can perform across all spectrums without a lot of the drawbacks or shortcomings of other rounds. Not to say other rounds are not good. Some are better at some things and some are better at others, but its hard to find ONE ROUND that is actually very good at everything. Within this cartridge class, and within the ability to fire out of an AR15 pattern gun, there is none better than the 6.5 Grendel that I have seen.

I think either the 7mm-08 or the 260 Rem in the next action size up also are superior rounds. Lower recoil than 30 caliber rounds, higher velocity, capable of taking medium to large game. Yes, a 338 Laupua is a better 1000 yard round if you are shooting at the enemy or shooting for score but is it as good of an all around round?