Is it really this hard to get an FFL?!?!

[IndyGunSafety]

Every time I talk to somebody about getting my FFL, the first question out of their mouth is "DO YOU HAVE A STORE FRONT?" This is followed by a frown when I say "NO".

I know in Fishers I am within the zoning laws as long as I don't get involved in RETAIL sales in my home. This does not seem to impress the "frowners".

I stopped at Wyatt guns last week and talked to an older gentleman who told me the following:

"You have to provide the ATF with a schematic of your alarm system in case THEY want to break in."

"You have to have a room in your house totally dedicated to selling firearms. Nothing else can be done in that room."

"You have to have separate safes for guns you have in stock, and those awaiting pickup."

“You have to have an entrance/exit specific to that area for business traffic.”

I am in the “separating fact from fiction” phase of this. Comments?

 

[emclean]

what sort of FFL are you after?

Type 1 FFL is a Title 1 dealer or gunsmith
Type 2 FFL is a Title 1 dealer doing business as a pawnbroker
Type 3 FFL is a licensed collector of Curio & Relic (C&R) firearms
Type 6 FFL is a licensed maker of ammunition and reloading components other than Armor Piercing ammunition
Type 7 FFL is a Title 1 manufacturer of firearms, ammunition and ammunition components other than NFA, Destructive Devices and Armor Piercing ammunition
Type 8 FFL is an importer of Title 1 firearms and ammunition
Type 9 FFL is a dealer in Title 1 firearms including NFA destructive devices, but no other NFA
Type 10 FFL is a manufacturer of Title 1 firearms, ammunition and ammunition components, including NFA Destructive Devices but no other NFA, and not including Armor Piercing ammunition
Type 11 FFL is an importer of Title 1 firearms, ammunition and NFA Destructive Devices, but no other NFA

also this is why you get a funny look about not haveing a store front.
"A license may only be issued for a permanent premises at which the licensed applicant intends to do business."

scorse Licensing - FAQ's

 

[IndyGunSafety]

what sort of FFL are you after?

Type I.

 

[stoyan79]

Did you read this recent thread?

https://www.indianagunowners.com/fo...s_it_worth_getting_a_class_i_ffl_license.html

 

[6birds]

Every time I talk to somebody about getting my FFL, the first question out of their mouth is "DO YOU HAVE A STORE FRONT?" This is followed by a frown when I say "NO".

I know in Fishers I am within the zoning laws as long as I don't get involved in RETAIL sales in my home. This does not seem to impress the "frowners".

I stopped at Wyatt guns last week and talked to an older gentleman who told me the following:

"You have to provide the ATF with a schematic of your alarm system in case THEY want to break in."

"You have to have a room in your house totally dedicated to selling firearms. Nothing else can be done in that room."

"You have to have separate safes for guns you have in stock, and those awaiting pickup."

“You have to have an entrance/exit specific to that area for business traffic.”

I am in the “separating fact from fiction” phase of this. Comments?

Send a PM to Michiana, he has a non-stocking store/FFL in Fishers right now, and also happens to be a heck of a nice guy. Several of the things you have mentioned here are un-true, and Wyatts is not your best source for information, whether the topic be FFL, guns, pistols, or anything related to hunting. Best of luck, in all you do.

 

[Shay]

Getting an FFL is not too hard. Keeping an FFL is getting harder and harder.

 

[IndyGunworks]

call me... pm sent with phone number... while i may not be able to help with fishers specific i have been approved for my ffl out of my home. i may be of some help
nick

 

[coltaceguy]

Several "kitchen table" FFL's have been harrased in Indiana.


I'd say no store front = no FFL for new applications. They seem to really want to be phasing those out.

 

[Cwood]

Several "kitchen table" FFL's have been harrased in Indiana.


I'd say no store front = no FFL for new applications. They seem to really want to be phasing those out.

I know of 3 people that have no store front and have been approved in the recent weeks for their FFL.

 

[IndyGunworks]

its actually a pretty simple process when you look back on it... the hardest part is just getting through it trying to follow all the rules, but once you got that ironed out its pretty simple.... and the atf is in NO WAY trying to phase out the kitchen table ffls.... they are trying to phase out the people that have ffl's for private use. if you do not intend on doing a bunch of work for profit, for other people, and use it to your advantage very little, then you are probably trying to get it for the wrong reasons....
i dont understand where people get the information from that the atf is purposefully denying permits because the person doesnt have a store front, that is not the case and has never been the case... anyone care to site a source??? didnt think so

 

[IndyGunworks]

I'd say no store front = no FFL for new applications.

you say it huh? must be true then... when did you get your FFL?

oh and for the record, i am receiving my firearms manufacturing license out of my garage..... thats where i get my information from.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Getting an FFL is not too hard. Keeping an FFL is getting harder and harder.

Shay,

Can you give me some examples you are familiar with?

 

[Shay]

Shay,

Can you give me some examples you are familiar with?

I used to be an 01/07 FFL with 03/02 SOTs. I also know a lot of FFLs from being in the industry over the years. The stories of minor paperwork and bound book issues being used to drum up problems are increasing. We were specifically told one thing by our old examiner and then when audited they came after us for the very same thing wanting it to be done the opposite of the way they asked us to do it in the first place.

Then there's the case (or lack there of) of Cav Arms. Coming up on 2 years with no charges with all their stock confiscated. Personally owned machine guns taken along with all the guns owned by the corporation. And still no official word on why the raid happened.

If you want your FFL, you should get it. But my warning is to be absolutely vigilant, make zero mistakes and get everything in writing. Even then, don't trust that having something in writing will matter much if they change their mind.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

Well the application is in. Sent to CLEO and ATF with a check. Now the waiting begins...

One thing I wondered about was the picture you have to send in. I had them done at CVS. The instructions say to attach the photo TO COPY 1 of the application. but there is a place for it on all the other copies. I only put one on the first copy LIKE THE INSTRUCTIONS SAID! If that thing comes back because there are not pics in the other blanks I'm gonna be bothered, lol!

 

[westfork]

i put pictures everywhere there was a space for one. those "optional" things usually get followed up with requests for the "optional" stuff such as social security numbers on fingerprint cards and things of that nature that... if you are following the instructions appear to be optional. filling in all the blanks seems to help things along when it comes to these types of things. i know i know it sucks, but when you put yourself on the line to get an FFL you best be prepared for the scrutiny.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

I talked to them today because the form 7 says 1 fingerprint card and the photocopy letter says 2. The form 7 says send copy 1 and 2 to the ATF. The photocopy thingy says keep copy 2 and 3. Lucky for me I followed the form 7 instructions. The lady said only one photo on copy one is needed and I can send an extra fingerprint card if I want and they will add it to the file. She says they like 2 because one is often rejected because of a smudge or something.

I think it's a bunch of *rap to get conflicting instructions. The lady told me it's a good thing I sent them copy one and two and did not follow the other sheet's instructions. She was really nice though, and it took seconds to get a real person on the phone. So far I am optimistic.

 

[XDs4me]

The problem I am having is they say you need to apply for a license to sell guns from the state. When I went to my local PD they had no idea. They called ISP and ISP said it is the same as the LTCH except it is for dealers. Does anyone know any different ? Please PM me.

 

[shooter521]

The problem I am having is they say you need to apply for a license to sell guns from the state. When I went to my local PD they had no idea. They called ISP and ISP said it is the same as the LTCH except it is for dealers. Does anyone know any different ?

IC 35-47-2-14
Necessity of retail handgun dealer's license; display
Sec. 14. A retail dealer who:
(1) sells;
(2) trades;
(3) transfers;
(4) exposes for sale, trade, or transfer; or
(5) possesses with intent to sell, trade, or transfer;
any handgun without being licensed under sections 15 and 16 of this chapter and without displaying his license at all times commits a Class B misdemeanor.

IC 35-47-2-15
Retail handgun dealer's license; application procedure
Sec. 15. (a) A person desiring a retail handgun dealer's license shall apply to the sheriff of the county in which he resides, or if he is a resident of another state and has a regular place of business in Indiana, then to the sheriff of the county in which he has a regular place of business. The applicant shall state his name, full address, occupation, sex, race, age, place of birth, date of birth, nationality, height, weight, build, color of eyes, color of hair, complexion, scars and marks, and any criminal record (minor traffic offenses excepted). The officer to whom the application is made shall verify the application and search his records concerning the applicant's character and reputation.
(b) The officer to whom the application is made shall send to the superintendent:
(1) the verified application;
(2) the results of the officer's investigation; and
(3) the officer's recommendation for approval or disapproval of the application;
in as many copies as the superintendent shall designate, and one (1) set of legible and classifiable fingerprints of the applicant. The superintendent may make whatever further investigation he deems necessary. Whenever disapproval is recommended by the officer to whom the application was made, he shall provide the superintendent and the applicant with his complete reasons for the disapproval in writing. If the officer to whom the application is made recommends approval, he shall instruct the applicant in the proper method of taking legible and classifiable fingerprints. If it appears to the superintendent that the applicant is of good character and reputation and a proper person to be licensed, he shall issue to the applicant a retail handgun dealer's license which shall be valid for a period of two (2) years from the date of issue. The fee for the license shall be twenty dollars ($20), which shall be deposited with the officer to whom the application is made, who shall in turn forward it to the superintendent for deposit with the treasurer of state when the application is approved by the superintendent. In the event that the application is disapproved by the superintendent, the fee shall be returned to the applicant along with the complete reasons, in writing, for the disapproval.
(c) No retail dealer's license shall be issued to any person who has been:
(1) convicted of a felony; or
(2) adjudicated a delinquent child for an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult, if the person applying for the retail dealer's license is less than twenty-three (23) years of age;
in Indiana or any other state or country.
(d) A retail dealer's license shall permit the licensee to sell handguns at retail within this state subject to the conditions specified in this chapter. The license may be suspended or revoked in accordance with applicable law, and the licensee may be subject to punishment as provided in this chapter.

IC 35-47-2-16
Retail handgun dealer's license; restrictions; display; prohibited sales; gun show
Sec. 16. (a) A retail dealer's business shall be carried on only in the site designated in the license. A separate license shall be required for each separate retail outlet. Whenever a licensed dealer moves his place of business, he shall promptly notify the superintendent, who shall at once issue an amended license certificate valid for the balance of the license period. This subsection does not apply to sales at wholesale.
(b) The license, certified by the issuing authority, shall be displayed on the business premises in a prominent place where it can be seen easily by prospective customers.
(c) No handgun shall be sold:
(1) in violation of any provision of this chapter; or
(2) under any circumstances unless the purchaser is personally known to the seller or presents clear evidence of his identity.
(d) Notwithstanding subsection (a), a retail dealer may display, sell, or transfer handguns at a gun show in accordance with this chapter and federal law.

 

[IndyGunSafety]

I had my ATF inspection today and the nice lady told me she would be recommending I be issued a license!

When I told her about what they guy in Cicero told me she started to laugh. I couldn't help but ask what was going on up there and she asked me what I had been hearing. As I told her she just smiled and shook her head and said she couldn't comment. Hey, I had to try! If I can learn from other's mistakes...

Whatever it is up there I hope the get straightened out and back up to speed business wise.

As for me, thus far the entire process has been fine and VERY educational! The inspector that came out has been on the job 23 years, so she was a WEALTH of information. I am going to add some of the stuff I learned to the law portion of my class i.e. straw purchases, gifting, etc. There are a LOT of misconceptions out there.

The inspector asked me to tell my students how nice the ATF people really are, lol! (They really have been) I will, but my dad (former FFL) warned me they may not be so nice when they come to inspect. Dad was never cited once in over 20 years, but he said they tried some stuff now and then during inspections and were not very nice. We shall see. In spite of all the doom and gloom "stories" I am the kind of person to make up my own mind about such things.

 

[shooter521]

I had my ATF inspection today and the nice lady told me she would be recommending I be issued a license!

Good to hear! Glad your hard work is paying off; don't let the haterz and nay-sayers get you down.