Is healthcare a right?

[IUGradStudent]

There's an awesome article in today's Wall Street Journal on just this topic. Worth a read, good stuff:

Dalrymple: There Is No ‘Right’ to Health Care - WSJ.com

 

[jsgolfman]

Actually its posted in every E.R. You have the right for medical treatment and may not be denied for any circumstance........

Actually, its posted like that because they made it a law. Making it a law doesn't create a right. They have to treat you or face fines and/or jail time. It goes back to my mechanic example.

 

[Bill of Rights]

Nor do you have the RIGHT to have a bunch of town employee's come put out your house if it catches on fire. Nor do we have the RIGHT to check out books for free at a local library. They are services by everyone getting together it lowers the price for all.

Can you immagine how expensive it would be if you had to PAY for fire calls. Or how much ten thousand books costs. Everyone in a local community has gotten together to provide a service for their town.

Why can't a town build a clinic or trauma center for its citizens if they want?

I agree with Fletch. The problem is not the getting together. The problem is that no one is given a choice of whether they wish to participate or not.

If I never use the library, I still have to pay for it. If I own a large company that has it's own fire department whose salaries I pay out of my own pocket, I still have to pay for fire service. This is the same as if there is a fancy steakhouse in town and some, even most people like eating there, forcing everyone in town to pay for their meals. After all, can you imagine how expensive those meals would be if you had to pay for them yourself?

Actually its posted in every E.R. You have the right for medical treatment and may not be denied for any circumstance........

I think that posting says that because the hospital chooses to accept medicare/medicaid funding, they must at least do a screening exam and arrangement of transfer, if necessary.

Actually, its posted like that because they made it a law. Making it a law doesn't create a right. They have to treat you or face fines and/or jail time. It goes back to my mechanic example.

Yep. If the hospital refuses m'care/m'caid funding, they may choose to whom they provide service. For now.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[redneckmedic]

I know that there is a fine associated with denying emergency care. However I also believe that the violation exist because of discrimination. I see yals points....I stand corrected, however I don't think medical treatment is a privilege, I believe its a right. A right with limitations and it should come free. I do however believe medical insurance is a privildge.





Can Hospitals Refuse to Admit or Treat Certain Patients Without Incurring Liability?

Yes. Courts recognize that there is rising number of patients needing medical attention despite a growing shortage in hospital space. As a result, courts employ the general rule that a hospital has no obligation to help every patient that walks through its doors.
Are there any Exceptions to this Rule?

Yes. In many cases, a hospital can be held liable for refusing to treat a seriously hurt person in an emergency situation. Courts realize that emergency room (ER) patients generally need immediate medical attention, and failure to treat them is more than likely to lead to an aggravated injury or even death.
Does it Matter Who Refuses to Provide Treatment?

Yes. The person who refuses medical treatment to a patient must be an employee of the hospital. In addition, that person must have the authorization to determine what patients can or cannot received treatment. In most cases, this includes treating physicians, nurses, or other medical staff in charge of patient assignments.

 

[tenring]

Do we have enough doctors, nurses, equipment in place, offices, support personnel, hospital beds to support all of these grandiose ideas? Doesn't seem that anyone cares to address this particular question?

 

[redneckmedic]

Do we have enough doctors, nurses, equipment in place, offices, support personnel, hospital beds to support all of these grandiose ideas? Doesn't seem that anyone cares to address this particular question?

Yes, for the first time in history (that I know of) RN new grads are having problems finding jobs. Hospitals have more MD's then they can shake a stick at and well almost all EMT's and Medic work 2,3 or 4 jobs. Indianapolis has umpteen hospitals with multiple beds closed down, to keep staffing and census equal.

 

[tenring]

"Health care cannot be a right, because rights cannot come from government. At best, they can be protected by government. The founders understood this, which is why our Bill of Rights is really a list of restrictions on the government in Washington."

 

[bogus]

"Health care cannot be a right, because rights cannot come from government. At best, they can be protected by government. The founders understood this, which is why our Bill of Rights is really a list of restrictions on the government in Washington."

Agree, more of an entitlement than a right.

 

[Fletch]

Yes, for the first time in history (that I know of) RN new grads are having problems finding jobs. Hospitals have more MD's then they can shake a stick at and well almost all EMT's and Medic work 2,3 or 4 jobs. Indianapolis has umpteen hospitals with multiple beds closed down, to keep staffing and census equal.

There are a whole host of reasons why this might be happening, and only one of them is an overabundance of supply. Given that the government has had a stranglehold on the supply of new doctors and other health care providers/practitioners for going on 100 years now, I'd be more inclined to believe that it was other factors that make this happen.

 

[redneckmedic]

Given that the government has had a stranglehold on the supply of new doctors and other health care providers/practitioners for going on 100 years now,

Sorry got to throw the BS flag on that one.

 

[Fletch]

Sorry got to throw the BS flag on that one.

A little history for you:

AMA created its Council on Medical Education in 1904 with the goal of shutting down more than half of all medical schools in existence. (This is the Council having its 100th anniversary celebrated in Chicago this weekend.) In six years the Council managed to close down 35 schools and its secretary N.P. Colwell engineered what came to be known as the Flexner Report of 1910. The Report was supposedly written by Abraham Flexner, the former owner of a bankrupt prep school who was neither a doctor nor a recognized authority on medical education. Years later Flexner admitted that he knew little about medicine or how to differentiate between different qualities of medical education. Regardless, state medical boards used the Report as a basis for closing 25 medical schools in three years and reducing the number of students by 50% at remaining schools.

Since AMA's creation of the Council a century ago, the U.S. population (75 million in 1900, 288 million in 2002) has increased in size by 284%, yet the number of medical schools has declined by 26% to 123.

http://mises.org/story/1547

...and so on.

 

[redneckmedic]

A little history for you:

100 Years of Medical Robbery - Dale Steinreich - Mises Institute

...and so on.

I wasn't sure I bought that load above....until I found this:

American Medical Association

 

[Fletch]

I wasn't sure I bought that load above....until I found this:

Here's a little mental trick I use, to remember the real nature of the beast: Whenever I see the letters "AMA", I read it as "National Doctor's Union". Now, whether you're pro-union or anti-union, this changes the ball game a little. Most pedestrians think the AMA is just some sort of club for doctors. It isn't. It is a labor union, one that has managed to squeeze out almost all competition in the health care industry, with the help/collusion of the federal and state governments. Find a chiropractor or acupuncturist who was around and practicing in the 1970's... they probably have some good stories to tell.

 

[rambone]

A right is something you are allowed to do without the Government stopping you.
Rights are not what the Government will give you or do for you.

Examples of American Rights:
Right to Free Speech
Right to Free Press
Right to Free Religion
Right to Own Private Property
Right to Bear Arms
Right to Remain Silent
Right to Not be Illegally Searched
Right to Assemble
Right to Petition
Right to Deny someone entrance to your property (w/o warrant)
Right that your private property will not be taken for public use w/o just compensation
Right to Life, Liberty, & Pursuit of Happiness
Right to Vote

If you assume Health Care is a Right, then you assume you are owed something that must be taken from someone else. Health care costs what it does because the people who provide it spend years of their lives working and studying to acquire the knowledge necessary to treat people.

As discussed earlier, Fire Departments and Libraries exist in America, but they aren't your rights. You pay (and pay dearly) for these public services.