Interesting theory on OS usage

[libertybear]

If you have the time take 5 minutes and read the article. Don't get turned off by the title the author makes some very goods points. I am not so sure that I want everyone to jump into the Linux world though viruses would be sure to follow a mass influx of new users.

Why everyone should use Linux

 

[Fletch]

The whole thing smacks of effort.

 

[misconfig]

I would disagree with the comment " an influx of viruses", Mac has a lot of users and there are currently 0 viruses.

Not sure if I follow that theory to be honest, as *nix OS' are inherently secure, as opposed to Windows OS'.

It's just plain hard to design a virus for *nix that will spread like Windows - do you really think there are not coders out there wanting to exploit the already millions of Linux machines.

Not to mention the vast majority of webservers run Apache - with LINUX os'. If I were a malicious coder, I'd try it.

Just my opinion, otherwise, good article thanks for sharing.

 

[libertybear]

I would disagree with the comment " an influx of viruses", Mac has a lot of users and there are currently 0 viruses.

Not sure if I follow that theory to be honest, as *nix OS' are inherently secure, as opposed to Windows OS'.

It's just plain hard to design a virus for *nix that will spread like Windows - do you really think there are not coders out there wanting to exploit the already millions of Linux machines.

Not to mention the vast majority of webservers run Apache - with LINUX os'. If I were a malicious coder, I'd try it.

Just my opinion, otherwise, good article thanks for sharing.

The reason I said that was due to the increase in Mac users and yes they now code viruses for Mac. It started about 3 or 4 years ago and there are over 100 known viruses. I believe I read somewhere that there are even a couple viruses that were coded for Linux just to test the possibility but they are benign. I am not putting down any OS here just letting you know that there are vulnerabilities and security risks involved in all of them. Think of it this way every OS is man made and is subject to failure some are just better made. If the authors theory holds water then if everyone did this then maybe they would all be more secure and the number of all known viruses would decrease dramatically, I don't know...

Fletch I am not sure I follow what your trying to say

 

[Fletch]

Fletch I am not sure I follow what your trying to say

It's my reason for not trying Linux... and for not using Windows anymore except when absolutely necessary... the whole thing smacks of effort. I poured 15 years of my life down the Microsoft rat hole, constantly fiddling with this & that to make it work just right, then I switched to OSX.

By the same token, every time I think about Linux, I remember reading somewhere on a tech support forum, where a guy asked what he could do to fix an OS issue, and the answer involved recompiling the kernel. Again, that whole thing smacks of effort. I want my OS to get out of my way and let me work, cuz I got **** to do.

If it works for you, great. More power to ya. I don't have the time or inclination to try it unless someone's paying me to do so.

 

[misconfig]

The reason I said that was due to the increase in Mac users and yes they now code viruses for Mac. It started about 3 or 4 years ago and there are over 100 known viruses. I believe I read somewhere that there are even a couple viruses that were coded for Linux just to test the possibility but they are benign. I am not putting down any OS here just letting you know that there are vulnerabilities and security risks involved in all of them. Think of it this way every OS is man made and is subject to failure some are just better made. If the authors theory holds water then if everyone did this then maybe they would all be more secure and the number of all known viruses would decrease dramatically, I don't know...

Fletch I am not sure I follow what your trying to say

There have ALWAYS been viruses for Mac and *NIX, but there is a huge difference between code that exploits ignorance and code that exploits known security holes.

You show me 1 virus that does either in Linux, the ones that rely on ignorance still require complicated tasks to complete in order for the code to execute, on the other hand *nix vulnerabilities are patched so quickly the viruses just dissolve.

I truly don't believe it's because of sheer users, because in the enterprise *nix is god, it just makes so much more sense to exploit *nix boxes if you want to get at real data - plain and simple, so the desire is there - that's the point I'm trying to make.

Also Fletch, Linux isn't like that anymore man - it's not like the days of Slackware when everything had to be customized by the user - Linux has progressed by eons in the last decade.

These opinions are based on my years of professional *nix experience; I am also a RHCT, RHCE and RHCA.

 

[Bunnykid68]

I run dual operating systems just so I can use the Linux for most of my websurfing and downloading for the security Linux provides.

 

[misconfig]

I run dual operating systems just so I can use the Linux for most of my websurfing and downloading for the security Linux provides.

That's a good way to go for sure!

I have been windows-free since 1999.

 

[libertybear]

It's my reason for not trying Linux... and for not using Windows anymore except when absolutely necessary... the whole thing smacks of effort. I poured 15 years of my life down the Microsoft rat hole, constantly fiddling with this & that to make it work just right, then I switched to OSX.

By the same token, every time I think about Linux, I remember reading somewhere on a tech support forum, where a guy asked what he could do to fix an OS issue, and the answer involved recompiling the kernel. Again, that whole thing smacks of effort. I want my OS to get out of my way and let me work, cuz I got **** to do.

If it works for you, great. More power to ya. I don't have the time or inclination to try it unless someone's paying me to do so.

Sounds like we both left MS for the same reasons. I would admit that at first Linux was more work than what it was worth but it's come a long way. I can have a *nix desktop up and running in 22 minutes with everything working OTB with the exception of wireless which takes another 5 minutes. That time is from start to finish with the reboot to remove the install cd.
There are still distros out there that require compiling but that is another thing I like about *nix If your setting up a server or something then compile time is worth it but for the avg. desktop one of the bunts work out better.

I would say by using Mac you are in fact contributing to the authors theory. I believe the author uses Linux as an example because it can be test driven free and with the price of flash drives coming down you can run live versions so there is no need to install but the trending reports would pick it up. Mac users are at 5% of the market right now with Linux at 1% That tells MS that people are happy so no need to improve and no need to drop prices.

I keep a 4GB usb drive with the following "live cds" on it for when I am not home or for recovery and repair not in order Puppy, SystemRescueCd, Privatix and a couple others that I rotate out for people to try out the rest of the drive is set up for storage. It's pretty simple plug it and reboot then pick your choice at boot up but the box has to be capable of booting from a usb drive of course. I run Puppy when I am away from home and don't want to use MS I run Privatix to browse the web anonomously.

 

[tuoder]

The reason I said that was due to the increase in Mac users and yes they now code viruses for Mac. It started about 3 or 4 years ago and there are over 100 known viruses. I believe I read somewhere that there are even a couple viruses that were coded for Linux just to test the possibility but they are benign. I am not putting down any OS here just letting you know that there are vulnerabilities and security risks involved in all of them. Think of it this way every OS is man made and is subject to failure some are just better made. If the authors theory holds water then if everyone did this then maybe they would all be more secure and the number of all known viruses would decrease dramatically, I don't know...

Fletch I am not sure I follow what your trying to say

There are no known viruses for the Mac in the wild. There was once a rootkit that came from pirating iWork '09. It's not worth the effort to write a virus that could only possibly infect <5% of computers. It's not worth it for adware or spyware either. Were that number larger it could change. In fact, I'd even go so far as to say that the results of one being created would likely be catastrophic, since virtually no Mac users employ any sort of malware protection.

It's my reason for not trying Linux... and for not using Windows anymore except when absolutely necessary... the whole thing smacks of effort. I poured 15 years of my life down the Microsoft rat hole, constantly fiddling with this & that to make it work just right, then I switched to OSX.

By the same token, every time I think about Linux, I remember reading somewhere on a tech support forum, where a guy asked what he could do to fix an OS issue, and the answer involved recompiling the kernel. Again, that whole thing smacks of effort. I want my OS to get out of my way and let me work, cuz I got **** to do.

If it works for you, great. More power to ya. I don't have the time or inclination to try it unless someone's paying me to do so.

I'm in nearly the same boat. I type this on a machine running Mac OS and Ubuntu. My experience with Ubuntu went like this: First, I acquired and burned the ISO of 10.04. It wouldn't boot. I downloaded the previous version. It booted and installed and updated. My headphones wouldn't work. Speakers worked, Headphones wouldn't. I found the issue online. I had to go into a command-line based sound mixer and unmute one of the sliders. Then I went to go onto Youtube. Flash was not included. I found Flash. I then went to watch a DVD. Codecs for watching a DVD were not included. I had to download them, etc.

Every Linux distro I've seen is just a lot of work to do get anything to work correctly. Nevermind customizing it, I just want it to work in the first place. I boot into Mac OS X, and everything is simple and functional. More basic software and codecs are included (WMV support is not, but it is simple to add). I plug in a printer, and it will show up the next time I go to print.

There have ALWAYS been viruses for Mac and *NIX, but there is a huge difference between code that exploits ignorance and code that exploits known security holes.

You show me 1 virus that does either in Linux, the ones that rely on ignorance still require complicated tasks to complete in order for the code to execute, on the other hand *nix vulnerabilities are patched so quickly the viruses just dissolve.

I truly don't believe it's because of sheer users, because in the enterprise *nix is god, it just makes so much more sense to exploit *nix boxes if you want to get at real data - plain and simple, so the desire is there - that's the point I'm trying to make.

Also Fletch, Linux isn't like that anymore man - it's not like the days of Slackware when everything had to be customized by the user - Linux has progressed by eons in the last decade.

These opinions are based on my years of professional *nix experience; I am also a RHCT, RHCE and RHCA.

Any program that can fool the user into installing it could happen on any OS, but to be fair, I'm not aware of it occurring on a widespread basis on Windows for some time now, but then, I don't use Windows anymore.

It's true that different Linux distros offer different levels of simplicity and customizability, but it isn't possible to create as smooth of an experience as Apple does, simply because they focus on a small number of devices, and get everything running as well as possible on those machines. There will always be binary blobs running through the linux world, and drivers that are bad and hacked together, and things that don't work at all because these are the limits of reverse-engineering.

 

[libertybear]

Here is a list of viruses as well as spyware for mac

MacScan Macintosh List of Spyware, Keystroke Loggers, Trojan Horses, Backdoors and Malware for Mac OS X

iAntiVirus - Threats for Mac

You have probably not had one because most of these require user interaction and you most likely are an informed, smart and careful user but they are out there. I would bet any viruses that were coded as a "drive-by" would be patched rather quickly by Apple but I am speculating on that.

 

[tuoder]

MacScan Macintosh List of Spyware, Keystroke Loggers, Trojan Horses, Backdoors and Malware for Mac OS X

iAntiVirus - Threats for Mac

You have probably not had one because most of these require user interaction and you most likely are an informed, smart and careful user but they are out there. I would bet any viruses that were coded as a "drive-by" would be patched rather quickly by Apple but I am speculating on that.

I can tell you, as an employee of PUC, my job is to fix Macs. The list is baloney.

Keyloggers are legitimate pieces of software that can be used maliciously. They record keystrokes. OSXvnc is a remote control program for Macs. It's legitimate software, and it is far from the only one. Mac OS has a VNC client built in, as a matter of fact. The fact that they would include in their list any software for Classic is laughable. No Mac made in the last 5 years can run classic in any capacity outside of emulation. None have been made for years before that that would run Classic natively, meaning the scope of any malware would be severely limited. That list was made by dishonest people trying to sell a product to people who don't know what they are looking at.

Furthermore, malware does exist for the Mac, but it requires the user to install it. Why should a computer disobey an order from a user? You can't fix user error.

 

[libertybear]

I can tell you, as an employee of PUC, my job is to fix Macs. The list is baloney.

Keyloggers are legitimate pieces of software that can be used maliciously. They record keystrokes. OSXvnc is a remote control program for Macs. It's legitimate software, and it is far from the only one. Mac OS has a VNC client built in, as a matter of fact. The fact that they would include in their list any software for Classic is laughable. No Mac made in the last 5 years can run classic in any capacity outside of emulation. None have been made for years before that that would run Classic natively, meaning the scope of any malware would be severely limited. That list was made by dishonest people trying to sell a product to people who don't know what they are looking at.

Furthermore, malware does exist for the Mac, but it requires the user to install it. Why should a computer disobey an order from a user? You can't fix user error.

I agree on what you said on malware and user error. I used to have a boss that would try to engineer safety with what he called "idiot proof" He would say I need you to build such and such to "idiot proof" this or that and I would say why bother they will just build a better idiot. lol

 

[tuoder]

I agree on what you said on malware and user error. I used to have a boss that would try to engineer safety with what he called "idiot proof" He would say I need you to build such and such to "idiot proof" this or that and I would say why bother they will just build a better idiot. lol

I have a favorite quote from Charles Babbage that relates to this:

On two occasions I have been asked, – "Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?" In one case a member of the Upper, and in the other a member of the Lower House put this question. I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question.

Just today I had a professor at PUC come in with a problem: Microsoft Word wouldn't start on her Mac. I asked her what the last thing she had done was. Well, the Mac had just warned her that she was low on hard drive space. She opened up the Finder (like Explorer on Windows) and went into a a preset search called "Today". In that search, she moved everything to the trash. She deleted every program and document that she had used that day.

This woman teaches college students how to use computers.