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  • Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Aug 23, 2009
    1,826
    113
    Brainardland
    Kut, now that my head is clear...

    Yes, I was attacked, and no, I was not in fear of my life, nor does the ordinance require me to be. I had a .45 in my pocket and those dogs were mine anytime I wanted. What I was in fear of was allowing the situation to degenerate until I was in fear of my life.

    Do I think it was acceptable to fire a shot in my neighborhood? In view of the alternative, definitely yes.

    Shots were going to be fired. I could have waited until the dogs were overwhelming me and opened fire on them. That would have required multiple shots at two angry moving targets while facing a frame residence and a construction site swarming with workers. I chose to face the other direction and fire a single shot. My knowledge of the physical makeup of that square foot of my back yard is as much as I've learned cutting the grass there for a number of years. Desireable? Certainly not. Necessary? Without a doubt.

    I understand your point about using a revolver as a substitute taser, and yes, I know the difference. Unfortunately when this unfolded I was fresh out of both dog whistles and tasers and I had to improvise. Back in the day I halted a few vicious dog attacks by whacking them across the snout with my stick (in the olden days when we actually carried sticks). I was out of them too.

    I wish I'd had more time to plan my strategy and I'm sure sorry you're disappointed in my performance. Maybe this old brain isn't firing as fast as it used to. This whole incident took about 3 seconds.

    This is the point where I'm supposed to say that if I had it to do over again, I'd just let the dogs eat their fill from my available neighbors and stay in the house.

    Can't do it. The only thing I'd change is the part about being honest, calling the police, and truthfully reporting what I did.

     

    Kutnupe14

    Troll Emeritus
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    40,294
    149
    Kut, now that my head is clear...

    Yes, I was attacked, and no, I was not in fear of my life, nor does the ordinance require me to be. I had a .45 in my pocket and those dogs were mine anytime I wanted. What I was in fear of was allowing the situation to degenerate until I was in fear of my life.

    Do I think it was acceptable to fire a shot in my neighborhood? In view of the alternative, definitely yes.

    Shots were going to be fired. I could have waited until the dogs were overwhelming me and opened fire on them. That would have required multiple shots at two angry moving targets while facing a frame residence and a construction site swarming with workers. I chose to face the other direction and fire a single shot. My knowledge of the physical makeup of that square foot of my back yard is as much as I've learned cutting the grass there for a number of years. Desireable? Certainly not. Necessary? Without a doubt.

    I understand your point about using a revolver as a substitute taser, and yes, I know the difference. Unfortunately when this unfolded I was fresh out of both dog whistles and tasers and I had to improvise. Back in the day I halted a few vicious dog attacks by whacking them across the snout with my stick (in the olden days when we actually carried sticks). I was out of them too.

    I wish I'd had more time to plan my strategy and I'm sure sorry you're disappointed in my performance. Maybe this old brain isn't firing as fast as it used to. This whole incident took about 3 seconds.

    This is the point where I'm supposed to say that if I had it to do over again, I'd just let the dogs eat their fill from my available neighbors and stay in the house.

    Can't do it. The only thing I'd change is the part about being honest, calling the police, and truthfully reporting what I did.

    at the end of the day, you were there and I wasnt. If you honestly believe that what you did was justified, then who am I? Your best chance of winning in court, is looking at the argument from the other side's perspective, and having a plausible rebuttal..... take that to heart. It's not about telling you side, it's about discrediting the other side.
     

    Stschil

    Grandmaster
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Aug 24, 2010
    5,995
    63
    At the edge of sanit
    This has turned into a very interesting thread to follow, however I must make this point:

    Liberty: Somehow it has turned into your hearing, though no result can come of it. I support you and your actions. Despite the reasoned and unreasoned discourse over the past pages, I 'believe' that given the same situation, having been in the business myself I would have done something very similar.
    But, by engaging in a conversation on this subject with a member of the Carmel PD, you may be placing him in the prosecutors camp, with every word of this thread possibly admissable (sp) as evidence. There are many many assumptions that have been posted by a miriad of people that given the right/wrong circumstances could be used against you.

    Kut: Sir, you sound like you have a very good head on your shoulders. By placing a warning to Liberty above, I by no means am calling you out as an enemy or a bad cop. If I were involved in any sort of litigation, I wouldn't tell my Mother the details for fear of the possibility of her having to be involved should there be no reason for it.

    As with anything, take this with a grain of salt. I am (proudly) not a lawyer. :patriot:
     

    cox7215

    Expert
    Rating - 100%
    4   0   0
    Dec 12, 2008
    1,311
    36
    Kokomo, IN
    I'm also a prior officer, I don't think it’s the officer we should be mad at really as much as Carmel it’s self for having suck a dumb ass city ord. If it was me showing up at the call I don't think I would of wrote the ticket on you at all, I would of called in the county dog pound and had then deal with the dogs, they have the power to fine them as well for the dogs being loose. Let's face it, this city ordinance was proposed in a public meeting and was voted on and passed at some point and time. You must have some real winners passing your town ord. I am sure you will get a letter and it will all go away soon and them telling you to plead “guilty” is just a tool so they can take the next step and try to revoke your Carry Permit……… B
     

    Delmar

    Master
    Rating - 100%
    3   0   0
    Jun 2, 2009
    1,751
    38
    Goshen IN
    Kut, now that my head is clear...

    Yes, I was attacked, and no, I was not in fear of my life, nor does the ordinance require me to be. I had a .45 in my pocket and those dogs were mine anytime I wanted. What I was in fear of was allowing the situation to degenerate until I was in fear of my life.

    Do I think it was acceptable to fire a shot in my neighborhood? In view of the alternative, definitely yes.

    +1
    The fear with most dog attacks is not that the dog is going to kill you, but that the dog is going to bite and injure you. Being injured first is not something you should need to tolerate!
     

    patton487

    Sharpshooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Feb 2, 2010
    458
    16
    Not saying he would, not saying he wouldn't. But if a copy of this thread winds up in the prosecutors office I think I'll know how it got there.
     

    Kutnupe14

    Troll Emeritus
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    40,294
    149
    This has turned into a very interesting thread to follow, however I must make this point:

    Liberty: Somehow it has turned into your hearing, though no result can come of it. I support you and your actions. Despite the reasoned and unreasoned discourse over the past pages, I 'believe' that given the same situation, having been in the business myself I would have done something very similar.
    But, by engaging in a conversation on this subject with a member of the Carmel PD, you may be placing him in the prosecutors camp, with every word of this thread possibly admissable (sp) as evidence. There are many many assumptions that have been posted by a miriad of people that given the right/wrong circumstances could be used against you.

    Kut: Sir, you sound like you have a very good head on your shoulders. By placing a warning to Liberty above, I by no means am calling you out as an enemy or a bad cop. If I were involved in any sort of litigation, I wouldn't tell my Mother the details for fear of the possibility of her having to be involved should there be no reason for it.

    As with anything, take this with a grain of salt. I am (proudly) not a lawyer. :patriot:
    Exactly, but on my honor. I am not notifying anyone about this thread. And no offense taken at all, Stschil, that's how I'd think too...
     
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Aug 23, 2009
    1,826
    113
    Brainardland
    I've known since I started this thread that it would end up in the hands of the prosecution, but I felt it was necessary that the gun-owning community be made aware of Carmel's anti-gun policies as soon as the incident happened.

    That doesn't bother me at all. Carmel's PD and its prosecutor are the ones here that need to fear the truth, not me.
     

    Kutnupe14

    Troll Emeritus
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 13, 2011
    40,294
    149
    Not saying he would, not saying he wouldn't. But if a copy of this thread winds up in the prosecutors office I think I'll know how it got there.

    Don't assume. From what I'm understanding this case has been given it's own specific date to be heard, because the court is expecting a bunch of people to show up. I have no idea how they could "expect" that other than someone trolling the website.... which BTW, isn't me.

    And the last thing I'd want is for the administration to give me grief for posting here.
     

    Mr.Strato

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jan 20, 2011
    99
    6
    "Carmel's anti-gun policies "

    I've read this whole topic and I can't find any evidence to support that statement.
    It appears Carmel has a policy concerning the discharge of a firearm.
    You've lawyered up, I'd suggest you zip it and let him do his job.
    I mean that in the nicest way-I'm on your side and support your actions in the incident.
    The best advice I can give you is(practice saying this)"talk to my attorney"
     

    MACHINEGUN

    Shooter
    Rating - 100%
    1   0   0
    Aug 16, 2008
    2,906
    36
    Du Mhan Yhu
    The Prosecutor can drag this on as long as he would like.. this won't change the support he gets from most people here, guess he's going to learn this when the time comes.

    But do us all a favor Liberty Sanders.. let the dog eat you or kill you next time!

    I'm sure this kind outcome would make Carmel much happier!
     

    mrjarrell

    Shooter
    Rating - 0%
    0   0   0
    Jun 18, 2009
    19,986
    63
    Hamilton County
    For those that don't think that Carmel is anti-gun, I'd suggest you visit one of their parks. Their signs are quite adamant about not being armed in them. The Monon Trail thru Carmel is a prime example, as is Flowing Well. You can sit on Bub's Burgers patio and be nice and legal, then set one foot onto the Monon while heading back to your car and you've committed a crime. Carmel is anti-gun. And their republican, big spending mayor likes it that way.
     
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