Indiana Woman Arrested For Exercising Caution

[jbombelli]

Don't worry about whether or not the cop is going to be walking out into traffic. If he doesn't want to walk out into traffic he won't light you up in a place where there's traffic zooming by. His problem.

 

[shibumiseeker]

Don't worry about whether or not the cop is going to be walking out into traffic. If he doesn't want to walk out into traffic he won't light you up in a place where there's traffic zooming by. His problem.

My life's work often involves saving people from their own stupidity.

 

[jbombelli]

My life's work often involves saving people from their own stupidity.

So? It only takes being screamed at once for not immediately pulling over in an unsafe place for a person to just say to himself "**** it. It's not my problem if some dumbass wants to get hit by a truck."

But then my life's work doesn't involve saving others from the consequences of being a dumbass.

 

[ModernGunner]

Just drop the stupid charges.

And yes, Brother LEO's, they're stupid charges.

 

[oldpink]

Wouldn't have arrested her, but she should have pulled over. I never seen, nor even heard of an impersonator using a fully marked car with activated lights AND sirens, pulling over someone. If she's so worried about her safety, she should probably stay within the speed limit, and not travel almost 20mph, above it.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This right here.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Just drop the stupid charges.

And yes, Brother LEO's, they're stupid charges.

Yes, it's dumb. That change should only apply to people who are actually fleeing/evading LE.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

For an infraction of failure to yield yes, for resist with a vehicle you have to prove she was knowingly or intentionally trying to flee. I find in ironic that the sheriff's department spokesman cites the infraction while trying to defend an arrest for felony resist.

If the facts are being reported correctly, I'm haveing a hard time seeing proving beyond a reasonable doubt that she intended to flee.

The Indiana Supreme Court has drastically rolled back what it will sustain a resisting charge on in the last couple of years and that is precisely because fact patterns like this keep rearing their head. Probably a good 1/3 of the caselaw sustaining resist charges has been overturned in the past couple of years, particularly as regards force and the lawfulness of police behavior.

If the cops want the courts to give them good caselaw on resisting, they might reconsider arrests like this one...

Don't know, wasn't there. Standard disclaimer blah-blah-blah.

IF the facts as presented are correct, I wouldn't support a fleeing charge. Failure to yield, fine. I've followed Burmese for longer than that who couldn't figure out why I didn't go around them and not charged them with fleeing. Distance isn't the only deciding factor. Did the person accelerate? Did they drive evasively? Did they commit other traffic violations? Distance of course figures in. Early in my career I assisted on a "pursuit" where a guy ran a red light, got on I-465, and wouldn't stop for the officer. It went for around 7 miles before he got boxed in and stopped, prior to that we were doing about 65 the whole time. He said he knew he had a warrant and wanted to finish his last few cigarettes before he went to jail. (Funny side note, he did not actually have a warrant). That supported a fleeing charge. Where the line is drawn I don't know, its going to be the totality of the circumstances.

 

[Denny347]

Another example of, "Doing things right rather than doing the right things." Does this fit the statute? Maybe... Does this fit the spirit of the law? NO. I see examples of this motto every day in life, it's a real problem in our society, not just in LE.

 

[KLB]

Wouldn't have arrested her, but she should have pulled over. I never seen, nor even heard of an impersonator using a fully marked car with activated lights AND sirens, pulling over someone. If she's so worried about her safety, she should probably stay within the speed limit, and not travel almost 20mph, above it.

There is no denying the lights and sirens, but Porter County squad cars are not easily identifiable as such. They are one that has gone to a stealth look for all of their newer vehicles. They left the old two tone brown and cream for a pretty standard beige color. Especially with it having been dark and the car behind her, it would be very hard to tell that the car was a marked cruiser. I really do not understand the trend towards making squad cars less easily identifiable.

If this happened as reported, the deputy ought to have his attitude readjusted by the Sheriff.

 

[oldpink]

There is no denying the lights and sirens, but Porter County squad cars are not easily identifiable as such. They are one that has gone to a stealth look for all of their newer vehicles. They left the old two tone brown and cream for a pretty standard beige color. Especially with it having been dark and the car behind her, it would be very hard to tell that the car was a marked cruiser. I really do not understand the trend towards making squad cars less easily identifiable.

If this happened as reported, the deputy ought to have his attitude readjusted by the Sheriff.

Agreed 100% about the weird trend away from making squad cars easily recognizable as such.
Seriously, what the hell was wrong with the traditional black-white-black four door sedan look?

 

[jbombelli]

Agreed 100% about the weird trend away from making squad cars easily recognizable as such.
Seriously, what the hell was wrong with the traditional black-white-black four door sedan look?

People saw them and would make a point of driving safely?

 

[SMiller]

People saw them and would make a point of driving safely?

Black and white is not tactical, everyone wants a unmarked car with no lightbar.

How about the Westfield PD charger that is plain white with a lightbar, pretty weird.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Agreed 100% about the weird trend away from making squad cars easily recognizable as such.
Seriously, what the hell was wrong with the traditional black-white-black four door sedan look?

Money. It cost more. IMPD went to gray after the merger. Then they realized it cost more per car than fleet white. The number I heard was $500 per car. When you've got a big fleet that adds up into fewer cars or more money pretty quick. You'll also notice our stripe package is much simpler than right after the merger. Same reason, $$$.

When I first heard that, I was wondering how one color of paint could be so much more money than white. WhatI didn't know is police departments in Indiana pool together to buy cars. If you order what everyone else is ordering, quantity discount, etc.

The traditionalist in me likes black/white for city, two tone brown for county, and DOT yellow for state, but I get the reasoning behind plain white.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

Black and white is not tactical, everyone wants a unmarked car with no lightbar.

How about the Westfield PD charger that is plain white with a lightbar, pretty weird.

No, everyone does not. Perhaps you should ask the INGO cops some questions about how we think or the way we operate before you go speaking for us.

 

[ws6guy]

Question to the officers on here. Below are 3 times where I've been pulled over and didn't stop right away, I haven't been pulled over in around 10 years so I'm not a habitual offender . I do however get annoyed when traffic gets backed up cause some pulled over in an area that is blocking the flow of traffic. Not just for myself but I think that all parties involved would be safer if the stop could take place off the road if possible.

1. at night on a 2 lane highway, it was at least a mile if not 2 miles the lights were flashing before I pulled over to what I deemed a safe spot. There wasn't much of shoulder on the side road and didn't want my truck half on the road at night while pulled over.

2. Busy tourist area with both sides of the street lined with parked cars. Drove 2 or 3 blocks to pull over in a parking lot in order to not stop traffic.

3. Pulled over in restaurant parking lot instead on the road. Side of the road is a curb and a side walk and I didn't want to block traffic. This was more of a pull over right away, just didn't stop on the road.

In at least the 1st two I made clear with speed and flashers that I was aware of the officers presence. My location to pull over was never brought up during the traffic stops. I have just assumed for several years that officers would appreciate the fact of a traffic stop taking place off the road in a safer location if possible....maybe I have been wrong all these years.

 

[jsharmon7]

Officers are taught to conduct the stop in a place they deem appropriate. If they turn on the lights, pull over to the right.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I have just assumed for several years that officers would appreciate the fact of a traffic stop taking place off the road in a safer location if possible....maybe I have been wrong all these years.

If I don't want you to stop there I won't turn on my lights there. If you don't notice me for awhile and stop somewhere unsafe, I'll use the PA to tell you to move a bit.

This comes up fairly often on the forum and I say the same thing. You think "I'm going somewhere safe". The officer has to think "is this guy stalling for time to access a weapon, hide contraband, prepare to flee, call his buddy to ambush me on the stop, etc. etc."

 

[femurphy77]

I've pulled over at the next safe area to do so and been chastised for it and pulled over immediately and been chastised for it. Catch 22 for power trippers!!

 

[femurphy77]

Black and white is not tactical, everyone wants a unmarked car with no lightbar.

How about the Westfield PD charger that is plain white with a lightbar, pretty weird.

Used to see an unmarked Beech Grove PD car sitting in front of the hospital on occasion. Funny part of it was the license plate on the front of the car that said "Unmarked Police Vehicle"!

 

[edporch]

Several years back, a friend of mine's aunt was telling me about being on I-65 in in the boonies in the Rensselaer, IN area.

She looked over in the the left lane next to her, and a man in an unmarked car, NOT in uniform was simply holding up a badge of some sort, motioning her to pull over.

Not sure about who this was, she drove a few miles to the Hwy 114 exit west of Rensselaer and pulled into the parking lot of a well populated truck stop.

Turns out it WAS an Indiana State Police officer who was out of uniform, in an unmarked car, and he only had a badge.

She said he was pissed and had no regard for her waiting to pull over.

She said he hand cuffed her and tossed her into the back seat in such a way that she fell down on the floor behind the driver's seat, and rode that way into town to the jail.

In the end, she got her speeding ticket and was released.

But why anybody would blame her for not pulling over in the boonies of I-65 to just a guy waving badge in an unmarked car, not in uniform seems ridiculous.