Indiana BMV now adds points to records under state’s hands-free driving law

[idkfa]

Excellent, thank you!

From there if you really want to drill down, you'll need to start picking up some textbooks and academic journals.

Academic journals are indeed what I implied. Due to the nature of my profession (pharma/biotech), I stopped thinking of (text)books as a source of information, and yet they most certainly are of value in some fields.

 

[jsx1043]

Hmmm... something something freedom... something something big government... something something over-regulation...

 

[churchmouse]

Hmmm... something something freedom... something something big government... something something over-regulation...

Brother I fully understand and agree.

Now, in this I wish we could at least slap the living **** out of those that are distracted to the point in driving that I/we have to avoid hitting, get slowed down in our travels point a to b in daily life, and near have a heart attack by the antics of a ****ing moron and their G.D cell phones. I can not leave the house and drive over a mile away it seems that some idiot near hits me, causes me to miss a green light etc and so on because of these damned phones. I am sick of it. Sick.

So what do we do past trying to get the attention of a Social Media addicted idiot. Short of slapping the living **** out of them when I am forced to the curb because they can not put down the G.D phone.......

Your turn.

 

[cbhausen]

Brother I fully understand and agree.

Now, in this I wish we could at least slap the living **** out of those that are distracted to the point in driving that I/we have to avoid hitting, get slowed down in our travels point a to b in daily life, and near have a heart attack by the antics of a ****ing moron and their G.D cell phones. I can not leave the house and drive over a mile away it seems that some idiot near hits me, causes me to miss a green light etc and so on because of these damned phones. I am sick of it. Sick.

So what do we do past trying to get the attention of a Social Media addicted idiot. Short of slapping the living **** out of them when I am forced to the curb because they can not put down the G.D phone.......

Your turn.

I hear ya, bro. I’ve been on both sides of this problem, far less on the offending side in years past when cell phones were more novelty than mainstream. And now that I’m back on two wheels after about 30 years I can clearly say that distracted driving presents the biggest threat to motorcyclists.

Since my goal is to be around a good long time for myself and my family my riding is also quite different than it was 20 years ago. I used to roll with hordes of crotch rocket riding wanna be road racers. We rode too close together and too fast (not road racer fast but too fast nonetheless).

I have slown down, keeping my distance and enjoying the ride. I like it this way. It has as much with being 30 years older as anything else. Young wisdom is hard to find. The wisdom that comes with age is a blessing not all of us get to enjoy.

As for the new hands-free law and adding points on your license, I hate new laws as much as anyone but it’s kind of like gun laws: the bad apple spoils for the rest of us. I thought about the law when reaching for my phone instead of leaving it in the cradle. So the law must work to some extent.

 

[KLB]

As for the new hands-free law and adding points on your license, I hate new laws as much as anyone but it’s kind of like gun laws: the bad apple spoils for the rest of us. I thought about the law when reaching for my phone instead of leaving it in the cradle. So the law must work to some extent.

You are in the vast minority there. I would bet most people do not even know about the law at all. Of those that have heard of it, only some small percentage will be like you are think about it and not do it because of the law.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Excellent, thank you!

Academic journals are indeed what I implied. Due to the nature of my profession (pharma/biotech), I stopped thinking of (text)books as a source of information, and yet they most certainly are of value in some fields.

It's always tough to give recommendations without knowing how deep the person requesting's background goes. If you are familiar with the underlying psychology and biology already, then you can likely skip a lot of the "introduction to laymen" stuff. I was starting from a Psych 101 as a freshman and building from there so I basically started with coloring books...

If you're already familiar with the underlying concepts, then just start reading up on cognitive load theory, how Sensory Memory interacts with Working Memory (which is what we're actively paying attention to) and Long Term memory, and the terms I previously supplied.

 

[Leadeye]

A lot of people never make it through instrument school in flying, it's hard to split up tasks and stay focused. Reading plates, listening to instructions, watching and reacting to instruments with control inputs are all things that have to be done correctly and on time. It's done every day, but I don't think anybody could do it without a lot of training.

Maybe there's some sort of training program that would teach multitasking in cars.

 

[DadSmith]

You are in the vast minority there. I would bet most people do not even know about the law at all. Of those that have heard of it, only some small percentage will be like you are think about it and not do it because of the law.

I just now heard about it from this thread. Since I've seen State Troopers and Sheriffs deputies driving and talking on the cellphone I figured it wasn't law here. At least I know now.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Not sure why this is limited to cell phone use distracted driving?

Years ago, had a 30 mile commute, almost all of it interstate from the hinterlands to downtown. Would regularly see cars "wandering" in (and out of) their lane in traffic... full-on doing make-up, electric razor shaving, both with full attention on the rear-view mirror focused on their own face, reading the newspaper spread on the steering wheel, watching a movie on a portable dvd player, etc.

IMO, distracted driving infractions should start with observing poor driving THEN observing the reason for it. I really don't care if the reason is a phone or searching the McD's bag for the last fry... IMO, it's all the same.

 

[KLB]

Not sure why this is limited to cell phone use distracted driving?

Years ago, had a 30 mile commute, almost all of it interstate from the hinterlands to downtown. Would regularly see cars "wandering" in (and out of) their lane in traffic... full-on doing make-up, electric razor shaving, both with full attention on the rear-view mirror focused on their own face, reading the newspaper spread on the steering wheel, watching a movie on a portable dvd player, etc.

IMO, distracted driving infractions should start with observing poor driving THEN observing the reason for it. I really don't care if the reason is a phone or searching the McD's bag for the last fry... IMO, it's all the same.

So true. I remember being on 65 seeing a car speed up, slow down, drift a little, etc. I finally got tired of it, gunned it and went around them. The driver had a book on the steering wheel reading it.

 

[DadSmith]

Not sure why this is limited to cell phone use distracted driving?

Years ago, had a 30 mile commute, almost all of it interstate from the hinterlands to downtown. Would regularly see cars "wandering" in (and out of) their lane in traffic... full-on doing make-up, electric razor shaving, both with full attention on the rear-view mirror focused on their own face, reading the newspaper spread on the steering wheel, watching a movie on a portable dvd player, etc.

IMO, distracted driving infractions should start with observing poor driving THEN observing the reason for it. I really don't care if the reason is a phone or searching the McD's bag for the last fry... IMO, it's all the same.

You definitely have a good point. Distracted driver law would be better than targeting one thing.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Not sure why this is limited to cell phone use distracted driving?

Understanding this is just my guess: It's easier to write the law for. "No gizmo held in your hand while in motion unless you are calling 911" is an easy bright line rule. Easy to write, easy to communicate, easy to understand.

The concept of distracted driving is somewhat more nebulous. How do you codify it? What elements must be present, and in what measure, and how do you quantify it?

There's some well meaning laws that are pretty hard to enforce, or to enforce fairly, due to that. Speed unsafe for conditions, for example, is much harder to pin down then "70mph speed limit" is.

 

[BugI02]

Why don't they just manufacture the phones to shut off at a certain speed?

You might need to make a call while moving, as in calling 911 while either transporting someone injured to a hospital, reporting a drunk or wrong way driver, pursuing a criminal or being pursued by one

 

[JettaKnight]

Studies are just that, a study, they never report about the people who do not fit the agenda they are narrating. They only seek and publish info they want.

If so, law enforcement should not be allowed to key a mic to respond to a call without pulling over, be able to gaze at the screen of the laptop in their vehicle while moving.

Or are we going to play the game that LEO's are superior beings and must be allowed because they are superior individuals?

You're talking about studies and narratives, and immediately dismiss them because it doesn't fit your own narrative (preconceived notion).

 

[IndyBeerman]

You're talking about studies and narratives, and immediately dismiss them because it doesn't fit your own narrative (preconceived notion).

I have seen a multitude of individuals including my self, quite capable of carrying on a conversation on a cell phone using a hands free blue tooth headset. I'm level headed enough to say goodbye and hang up the phone if there is a issue, because I want to go home each night and not be a side decoration to a expensive cloth lined steel box.

Distracted driving should be attacked at the root of the problem. Distracted drivers. There are way too many people out there reading a book, newspaper, watching a video, putting on makeup and variety of other things that do not belong on the roadways.

When I had my commute from Plainfield to Pendelton Pike and Post Road (37 miles) at 5:30am each morning I would see no less than 15 (or more) each day doing this, all over the road, very few times was it a person with a cell phone.

If I was seeing this many while driving within a set amount of vehicles, how many people along that route was doing something they shouldn't. I'm betting that number is staggering.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

Understanding this is just my guess: It's easier to write the law for. "No gizmo held in your hand while in motion unless you are calling 911" is an easy bright line rule. Easy to write, easy to communicate, easy to understand.

The concept of distracted driving is somewhat more nebulous. How do you codify it? What elements must be present, and in what measure, and how do you quantify it?

There's some well meaning laws that are pretty hard to enforce, or to enforce fairly, due to that. Speed unsafe for conditions, for example, is much harder to pin down then "70mph speed limit" is.

I get what you're saying... both that the legislature only addresses what is politically expedient, and defining a generic distracted driving infraction concretely would prove difficult, if not impossible.

But, a few points... first, if the driver is sufficiently distracted that they cross lines while driving, that would seem to be sufficient both for pulling over and an infraction... unsafe lane change comes to mind.

Second, if they are driving erratically... wandering within their lane, speeding up and slowing down, could that by itself allow a stop even if they don't cross any lines, speed, etc?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I get what you're saying... both that the legislature only addresses what is politically expedient, and defining a generic distracted driving infraction concretely would prove difficult, if not impossible.

But, a few points... first, if the driver is sufficiently distracted that they cross lines while driving, that would seem to be sufficient both for pulling over and an infraction... unsafe lane change comes to mind.

Second, if they are driving erratically... wandering within their lane, speeding up and slowing down, could that by itself allow a stop even if they don't cross any lines, speed, etc?

Failure to maintain a lane of travel or unsafe lane change, depending on how badly they wander and if they enter another lane of travel or the shoulder.

Yes, as to stop someone you need reasonable suspicion. The actions you describe would be reasonable suspicion for OVWI (or more commonly known as DUI).

 

[JettaKnight]

I have seen a multitude of individuals including my self, quite capable of carrying on a conversation on a cell phone using a hands free blue tooth headset. I'm level headed enough to say goodbye and hang up the phone if there is a issue, because I want to go home each night and not be a side decoration to a expensive cloth lined steel box.

Distracted driving should be attacked at the root of the problem. Distracted drivers. There are way too many people out there reading a book, newspaper, watching a video, putting on makeup and variety of other things that do not belong on the roadways.

When I had my commute from Plainfield to Pendelton Pike and Post Road (37 miles) at 5:30am each morning I would see no less than 15 (or more) each day doing this, all over the road, very few times was it a person with a cell phone.

If I was seeing this many while driving within a set amount of vehicles, how many people along that route was doing something they shouldn't. I'm betting that number is staggering.

Excessively slow drivers, drivers that have no idea what's going on behind or beside them, excessive braking, drivers with no scanning... I can spot them from several cars back and eight times out of ten, they've got a phone in their hands; the one time is over 75, and that last one - mostly young kids.

All this is the unintended consequence of making roads safer; we've been lulled into giving driving less concentration.


And remember, 95% on the road think they drive better than 75% of the other drivers.





Full disclosure - I shave on my way (when I don't ride). But that requires less concentration than drinking a soda.

 

[IndyBeerman]

And remember, 95% on the road think they drive better than 75% of the other drivers.

Well, I got my Chauffeurs License in 1981 (equivalent to today's CDL) and the CDL in 1992 when it switched to that, I've never had a accident that was my fault in my life, and to add to that, I have avoided accidents due to looking ahead and paying attention on what is going on in front of me. A couple of times I was on my Bluetooth talking to my late wife.


I'm a firm believer that you must not only be looking at the 200 yards in front of you, but a half mile down the road, also a reason I look in my rear/spot mirrors frequently, because you need to know what is coming up from behind you and beside you at all times.

The lone accident I could not have avoided was a guy who went into a diabetic coma and ran a red light just as I was entering a intersection.

Even though I am medically unable to hold a CDL now (due to my mini stroke and related issues) I still drive my personal vehicle like a Big truck. I'm constanly trying to be aware of my surroundings even when I'm on a hands free device.

 

[KLB]

I have seen a multitude of individuals including my self, quite capable of carrying on a conversation on a cell phone using a hands free blue tooth headset. I'm level headed enough to say goodbye and hang up the phone if there is a issue, because I want to go home each night and not be a side decoration to a expensive cloth lined steel box.

Distracted driving should be attacked at the root of the problem. Distracted drivers. There are way too many people out there reading a book, newspaper, watching a video, putting on makeup and variety of other things that do not belong on the roadways.

When I had my commute from Plainfield to Pendelton Pike and Post Road (37 miles) at 5:30am each morning I would see no less than 15 (or more) each day doing this, all over the road, very few times was it a person with a cell phone.

If I was seeing this many while driving within a set amount of vehicles, how many people along that route was doing something they shouldn't. I'm betting that number is staggering.

You think you are, but nobody can talk on a phone and drive with the same level of concentration as they can without. That reduced attention can be the difference.

People can drive fine after drinking a little too. Except the alcohol reduces their attention and their reaction time. Thus increasing the chances of something bad happening.