if you're confused, what makes you think the dr wouldn't be?

[phylodog]

I know nothing about what Grillak is mentioning but it doesn't appear he's making it up.


https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/06/180629114711.htm

https://www.nature.com/articles/494009d

Gender Affirming Hormone Therapy induces specific DNA methylation changes in blood

DNA methylation is an epigenetic mark that is influenced by underlying genetic profile, environment, and aging. It also plays a key role in female-specific X-chromosome silencing in mammals. In addition to X-linked DNA methylation, sex-specific methylation patterns are widespread across...

www.medrxiv.org

 

[grillak]

Yes, I have, even tutoring children with fetal alcohol syndrome. It is not because their DNA is altered, it is because the baby in utero was getting dope up. People get addicted because of chemical receptors, not DNA changes.

please believe me. i'm not arguing. my observations come from a practical standpoint. science be d****d.

if any chemical or substances change your cells from a natural state it has changed your cells. whether they are neural receptors, toenails, or the color of you hair. if your cells have changed it's only logical (maybe only in my mind) that it has altered your dna.

i base my facts on the many addicts and their offspring in my own family.

if an person's receptors are altered to the point of addiction, then they produce children, those children are born mentally/physically deficient, something has been altered.

whatever you call it...receptors, cheerios, dna...something was altered.

 

[HoughMade]

His real argument is with biology itself, not the Doc. Follow the science! I mean the real, objectively verifiable science not the "social science" someone made up in the last 10 minutes.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

please believe me. i'm not arguing. my observations come from a practical standpoint. science be d****d.

if any chemical or substances change your cells from a natural state it has changed your cells. whether they are neural receptors, toenails, or the color of you hair. if your cells have changed it's only logical (maybe only in my mind) that it has altered your dna.

DNA is only one component of a component in a cell. The DNA you're talking about is contained in the nucleus and is the source of human genetics. Mitochondria also have their own DNA, which is completely seperate. An analogy would be you can change the bumper of a car without effecting the engine in the slightest and you can reprogram the shift points of the transmission without altering either. Cells are essentially colonies of even smaller building blocks that are kind of, but not exactly, like our own organs.

Lots of things alter cells and do not affect nucleaer DNA, and lots of things alter nuclear DNA that do not affect the organism in the slightest. The color of your hair is a good example. You could have damaged or altered recessive genes that would have zero effect on your hair color because other genes override them. You could also have mutated individual cells that do nothing to affect surrounding cells, or you could end up with a cancerous growth. If the "hair color" gene was damaged in a cell that's non-reproducing and not in a hair folicle, it will have zero effect on the organism's hair.

So you're correct in that chemicals and hormones *can* alter DNA but you are wrong that any cellular change is due to altered DNA.

 

[Romero Zombie]

uhh...i may not be a neuroscientists but i know enough addicts to know that it can alter dna.

have you ever seen a deformed baby because of the mother/father's continued addiction?

altered dna

No no no. Just wrong.

 

[Tombs]

please believe me. i'm not arguing. my observations come from a practical standpoint. science be d****d.

if any chemical or substances change your cells from a natural state it has changed your cells. whether they are neural receptors, toenails, or the color of you hair. if your cells have changed it's only logical (maybe only in my mind) that it has altered your dna.

i base my facts on the many addicts and their offspring in my own family.

if an person's receptors are altered to the point of addiction, then they produce children, those children are born mentally/physically deficient, something has been altered.

whatever you call it...receptors, cheerios, dna...something was altered.

If a single injection was enough to alter your DNA, gene therapy would be trivial!

No, sadly it doesn't work that way. It'll affect the cells it can interact with, and once the payload has been used up, it's done and gone. Your unaltered DNA will eventually over-take the changed cells, and no trace of it will remain.

To have a systemic DNA alteration would take a hell of a lot more than a single injection.

Cosmic rays from space are constantly shooting through your body, ripping DNA apart, or altering DNA like flipping bits in a computer. If those changes aren't fixed, you get cancer. This is why radiation is bad for you. But it's a roll of the dice every time that happens.

 

[grillak]

No no no. Just wrong.

thank you for your insightful input.

 

[Ziggidy]

crack/meth addicted babies, fetal alcohol syndrome?

altered dna

Can you link the info claiming those things change your dna?


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[Ziggidy]

uhh...i may not be a neuroscientists but i know enough addicts to know that it can alter dna.

have you ever seen a deformed baby because of the mother/father's continued addiction?

altered dna

It may change their chemistry but not dna


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[grillak]

If a single injection was enough to alter your DNA, gene therapy would be trivial!

No, sadly it doesn't work that way. It'll affect the cells it can interact with, and once the payload has been used up, it's done and gone. Your unaltered DNA will eventually over-take the changed cells, and no trace of it will remain.

To have a systemic DNA alteration would take a hell of a lot more than a single injection.

Cosmic rays from space are constantly shooting through your body, ripping DNA apart, or altering DNA like flipping bits in a computer. If those changes aren't fixed, you get cancer. This is why radiation is bad for you. But it's a roll of the dice every time that happens.

i get what you guys are explaining. i really do. and i appreciate you guys taking the time to break it down.

but i still will stand by my own observations.

sticking to my original reasoning...look at "her" beard. what caused her to grow it? did something "she" did change anything in her from it's natural state? what was it?

 

[Tombs]

i get what you guys are explaining. i really do. and i appreciate you guys taking the time to break it down.

but i still will stand by my own observations.

sticking to my original reasoning...look at "her" beard. what caused her to grow it? did something "she" did change anything in her from it's natural state? what was it?

That isn't genetics, it's just hormonal balance.
Tons of things affect that, from diet, environment, behavior, season, etc.
I mean hell, you can buy over-the-counter hormones from sketchy sources and wreck your body to the ninth degree.

 

[grillak]

Can you link the info claiming those things change your dna?


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i speak from my own life observations.

people are too quick to look for answers too the "no problem/non issue" and not the answer to the question at hand.

 

[grillak]

That isn't genetics, it's just hormonal balance.
Tons of things affect that, from diet, environment, behavior, season, etc.
I mean hell, you can buy over-the-counter hormones from sketchy sources and wreck your body to the ninth degree.

aren't hormones controled by genetics?

legitimate question. i'm learning something here.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

aren't hormones controled by genetics?

legitimate question. i'm learning something here.

Yes your DNA (and other things) tell your body how much and what kind of hormones to make, hormones don't change your DNA. Adding hormones or hormone blockers will effect how your body act/reacts to those, but it doesn't change your DNA.

 

[grillak]

Yes your DNA (and other things) tell your body how much and what kind of hormones to make, hormones don't change your DNA. Adding hormones or hormone blockers will effect how your body act/reacts to those, but it doesn't change your DNA.

i get what you're saying.

but....lol.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

i get what you're saying.

but....lol.

We'll go to your girl with a beard example, if they were to go off the hormones/blockers they would lose the beard (unless they had it naturally that is). That is not to say that they can't permanently alter your body, they can, but that doesn't change your DNA. It's like a woman who takes testosterone for body building, she stops taking it she will eventually start losing muscle mass.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

i get what you guys are explaining. i really do. and i appreciate you guys taking the time to break it down.

but i still will stand by my own observations.

sticking to my original reasoning...look at "her" beard. what caused her to grow it? did something "she" did change anything in her from it's natural state? what was it?

Hormone treatments. But once the injections stop so will the effect. There is no alteration to the individuals genetics that then allows them to produce elevated levels of testosterone in perpetuity. That's why they need ongoing supplemental testosterone to continue to have male traits.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

aren't hormones controled by genetics?

Yes and no. Let's take an easy one. Adrenaline is a hormone. How much adrenaline you have in your system swings wildly based on your perception of your environment. Genetics will play a role, but environmental factors are huge. Your genetics are not altered because your boss yelled at you or a tiger jumped up on the enclosure at the zoo right next to you but your adrenaline levels sure will be.

 

[grillak]

Yes and no. Let's take an easy one. Adrenaline is a hormone. How much adrenaline you have in your system swings wildly based on your perception of your environment. Genetics will play a role, but environmental factors are huge. Your genetics are not altered because your boss yelled at you or a tiger jumped up on the enclosure at the zoo right next to you but your adrenaline levels sure will be.

that's why i like hanging out with you guys.

i'm appreciating the genetics lessons.

i still don't think you guys are getting what i'm saying though. maybe i'm not using the right terminology.

or maybe i'm just screwy from all the roids from HS. lol

 

[Timjoebillybob]

that's why i like hanging out with you guys.

i'm appreciating the genetics lessons.

i still don't think you guys are getting what i'm saying though. maybe i'm not using the right terminology.

or maybe i'm just screwy from all the roids from HS. lol

I think I get what you're saying, but yeah wrong terminology. Hormone/blockers/etc can cause permanent changes, including (I think) to the natural hormones your body would produce. Not because it changes your DNA but because it changes the way their body develops. Take a young kid and put them on puberty blockers and cross sex hormones, they won't go through puberty and develop the characteristics of their sex. And it can cause sterility as well and a host of other problems.

Where I think you're getting it wrong is that you think it's because it changes your DNA, no that stays the same. As a non chemical/hormonal/etc example, look at feet binding in old Japan, they feet did not develop how they should, but their DNA is still the same. What they are doing is something along the lines of chemical/hormonal "binding".