I need a gun lawyer

[D-Ric902]

After the parking lot bill was signed this summer these signs are showing up. No gate or controlled entrance, is this enough to fall under the bill as a private parking lot?
Does "subject to search" mean that no guns are allowed under company policy (policy states no guns)

 

[rmabrey]

Subject to search is legal mumbo jumbo for if you have a gun you're fired for violating company policy and we don't have to pay you unemployment.

In all reality they probably wont be searching unless given reason to.

 

[Security122]

I am not a lawyer. My company has a no guns policy for employees, but since "the parking lot bill" went into effect, the company recognizes employees' right to have a gun locked in their personal vehicles while parked on company property. Some of the parking lots are fenced and gated and is obviously private property. That said, you better not be showing off your gun while it is parked on company property or the no guns policy kicks in and you could be fired. My company also maintains their right to search any vehicle parked on company property, but if a gun was found locked in the trunk, there shouldn't be a problem, if you have a LTCH.

 

[Scutter01]

My company also maintains their right to search any vehicle parked on company property

Your company doesn't have a right to search any vehicle parked on company property. They might have a privilege granted to them through an employment agreement, but they don't have a right.

 

[indykid]

Unfortunately in Indiana an employer can fire you for any reason as long as it doesn't relate to age, religion, sex, or skin color.

If for some reason they ask to inspect your vehicle and you say no, in Indiana they can fire you.

 

[thekuhnburger]

Unfortunately in Indiana an employer can fire you for any reason as long as it doesn't relate to age, religion, sex, or skin color.

If for some reason they ask to inspect your vehicle and you say no, in Indiana they can fire you.

That's right. Indiana is an "at will" employment state. Just be careful what you say

 

[Hawkeye]

Your company doesn't have a right to search any vehicle parked on company property. They might have a privilege granted to them through an employment agreement, but they don't have a right.

You sure about that?

 

[Scutter01]

You sure about that?

Yep. If you disagree, I'll be happy to look at the statute that lets them search my property without a warrant.

 

[rimfire_crazed]

You don't need a gun lawyer. You need a proper understanding of "Employment At Will". In Indiana you can be fired for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER. The "guns in locked cars law" does nothing to protect you. They simply can list "he smells like onions" instead of "gun in vehicle" and they're covered.

Best advice is to keep your gun to yourself, stay out of trouble, and be prepared to be fired for any reason if you're caught violating company policy.

 

[Hawkeye]

Yep. If you disagree, I'll be happy to look at the statute that lets them search my property without a warrant.

Well, since statues are only one source of law in the US, and in Indiana, a statute would not be the only place for you to look.

My counter, which is probably more valid, would be to say show me a statute that says that an employer does NOT have the ability, or right, to search vehicles, particularly those of an employee, on the employer's property.

While I am a lawyer, I do not know the answer to the question. I would submit, though, that it is likely that they may be able to conduct such searches at least as to employees and under some circumstances.

If you do have reference to a statute that says that it is not allowed, I'd be happy to know that.

 

[sporter]

I am not a lawyer. My company has a no guns policy for employees, but since "the parking lot bill" went into effect, the company recognizes employees' right to have a gun locked in their personal vehicles while parked on company property. Some of the parking lots are fenced and gated and is obviously private property. That said, you better not be showing off your gun while it is parked on company property or the no guns policy kicks in and you could be fired. My company also maintains their right to search any vehicle parked on company property, but if a gun was found locked in the trunk, there shouldn't be a problem, if you have a LTCH.

It does not have to be stored in the trunk per the state law/parking lot bill.

 

[sporter]

Unfortunately in Indiana an employer can fire you for any reason as long as it doesn't relate to age, religion, sex, or skin color.

Or fire you for having a firearm out of sight in your locked vehicle.

 

[Eddie]

Well, since statues are only one source of law in the US, and in Indiana, a statute would not be the only place for you to look.

My counter, which is probably more valid, would be to say show me a statute that says that an employer does NOT have the ability, or right, to search vehicles, particularly those of an employee, on the employer's property.

While I am a lawyer, I do not know the answer to the question. I would submit, though, that it is likely that they may be able to conduct such searches at least as to employees and under some circumstances.

If you do have reference to a statute that says that it is not allowed, I'd be happy to know that.

An employer does not have an unqualified right to search an employee's vehicle. As Scutter pointed out, they might make it a condition of your employment that you let them search your vehicle. If they tried to search your vehicle, you could still say no, the consequence would be that you would lose your job. In other words, they don't have a right to search your car, they can make a deal with you that you will let them search your car in return for employment. If you refuse, that could be grounds for firing you. They would not get to search your car without a warrant if you refuse to let them.

And yes, Indiana is an at-will state, but if you are fired for violation of a uniformly enforced policy then your employer can challenge your claim for unemployment benefits.

 

[Hawkeye]

Eddie, Look at my post again. I never said that an employer has an unqualified right to search an employees vehicle. I've never researched that under Indiana law.

But they may have that ability. As you pointed out it may be a condition of employment. It may arise under some theories under property law. It may even apply to the general public as a condition of driving their vehicle onto or across the property.

The employee who does not consent to that search may be subject to sanctions up to termination, etc. The general public would likely be denied access, but I can envision circumstances where the property owner might be justified in calling law enforcement and giving the LEO probable cause to search or request a search warrant.

At the end of the day, I guess I'm saying that a bald statement that the employer has no such right seems a bit over broad to me. Unless you, or someone else can point to a statute that specifically says that.

 

[Eddie]

Eddie, Look at my post again. I never said that an employer has an unqualified right to search an employees vehicle. I've never researched that under Indiana law.

But they may have that ability. As you pointed out it may be a condition of employment. It may arise under some theories under property law. It may even apply to the general public as a condition of driving their vehicle onto or across the property.

The employee who does not consent to that search may be subject to sanctions up to termination, etc. The general public would likely be denied access, but I can envision circumstances where the property owner might be justified in calling law enforcement and giving the LEO probable cause to search or request a search warrant.

At the end of the day, I guess I'm saying that a bald statement that the employer has no such right seems a bit over broad to me. Unless you, or someone else can point to a statute that specifically says that.

I'm sure Scutter will correct me if I am wrong, but I took his post to mean that a right is a principle of freedom or entitlement. As such an employer would never have a "right" to seach an employees' vehicle. They might have a contractual interest but that would not be called a right.

 

[rmabrey]

Or fire you for having a firearm out of sight in your locked vehicle.

actually they can

 

[Hawkeye]

I'm sure Scutter will correct me if I am wrong, but I took his post to mean that a right is a principle of freedom or entitlement. As such an employer would never have a "right" to seach an employees' vehicle. They might have a contractual interest but that would not be called a right.

I could see that except that in is reply to me on that point he asked me to produce a statute that said they did have such a right. All I'm doing is reading what he actually said, not what he may have meant to say.

In the end, it really doesn't matter. If I'm motivated enough I might research the issue more thoroughly, but in reality I'll probably get bored with the issue and move on to more profitable endeavors - like going to the range or planning my deer hunting for this Fall.

 

[sloughfoot]

The question is about the Norfolk Southern Railroad specifically. You need to talk to an attorney about this very specific situation. If you are in Ft Wayne, PM me and I will respond with a local attorney's name and number.

This question is similar to a question about a gun in a parked car at the airport in the employee parking lot of an airline. Mainly because the NS Police, who would be enforcing this rule, are now Federal agents and have far more powers than they did a few years ago. You don't want to f*** with them.....

 

[D-Ric902]

So the general agreement is that;
They can search my vehicle if they put up a sign that says they can.
If they search my vehicle and find a gun in the glove compartment they can fire me.

Then my question is this, what good was the Parking Lot bill in the first place if not to protect me from an employer firing me for having a gun secured in my vehicle in the state of Indiana?

 

[Fargo]

You don't need a gun lawyer. You need a proper understanding of "Employment At Will".

Wrong and Wrong. If he wants to understand his rights under the law, I guess I would have to suggest he talk to a lawyer.

Employment-at-will does not mean what you think it means in Indiana. There are a number of reasons for which an at-will employee may not be fired. One of those is enshrined in HB 1065 which has been enrolled into law:

Enrolled Act, House Bill 1065

Best,


Joe