How to deal with rioters?

[pudly]

Times have changed.

Not really. The rioters are pretty much the same and deserve the same reaction.

 

[MohawkSlim]

Just curious how this plays out.

Fire down the street at a gas station. You are in your 2d floor apartment watching through the windows. People in the parking lot in front of you milling around. More people. People yelling. They start bashing in random cars. Now hundreds of people are around, yelling into bullhorns, throwing rocks at windows, bashing cars, throwing fireworks.

You can't see any firearms.

When do you start shooting?

If you didn't decide to unass your apartment when it was "down the street" you already made an error. That said, if you had to stay and there was no direct threat to your person (not your property but your person) then shooting wouldn't be necessary. You might have to replace your car windows, clean up your bldg, etc., but there was no threat to life. It'd be scary, sure, but no reason to shoot.

If, however, the rioters started fires in the building shooting anyone and everyone might be necessary. This is the classic "Rules of Engagement" (the movie with Samuel L. Jackson and Tommy Lee Jones) scenario. Shooting the right people may not be possible but it's highly likely shooting anyone will end the situation. It's important to note dealing with a riot or mob of people already implies the rule of law has broken down. Will you be judged for your actions afterwards? Most likely. Should you care? Absolutely. But, it's a lot better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.

 

[T.Lex]

Not really. The rioters are pretty much the same and deserve the same reaction.

I disagree. Literally and figuratively, this is a new generation (or 2) of rioters. Rather than belabor the point, I guess we can only wait and see if someone posts sentries in a real STHF(locally) scenario.

 

[T.Lex]

If, however, the rioters started fires in the building shooting anyone and everyone might be necessary. This is the classic "Rules of Engagement" (the movie with Samuel L. Jackson and Tommy Lee Jones) scenario. Shooting the right people may not be possible but it's highly likely shooting anyone will end the situation. It's important to note dealing with a riot or mob of people already implies the rule of law has broken down. Will you be judged for your actions afterwards? Most likely. Should you care? Absolutely. But, it's a lot better to be judged by 12 than carried by six.

If the fire is already started in/on your building, what good will shooting do?

 

[MohawkSlim]

I disagree. Literally and figuratively, this is a new generation (or 2) of rioters. Rather than belabor the point, I guess we can only wait and see if someone posts sentries in a real STHF(locally) scenario.

There were several businesses in Ferguson protected by people standing out front with AR-15s. Guess which businesses were saved?

 

[pudly]

I disagree. Literally and figuratively, this is a new generation (or 2) of rioters.

Feel free to disagree. Not everyone believes in giving rioters room to destroy.

I guess we can only wait and see if someone posts sentries in a real STHF(locally) scenario

You seem to have missed the point of the picture I posted upstream.

 

[IndyDave1776]

Just curious how this plays out.

Fire down the street at a gas station. You are in your 2d floor apartment watching through the windows. People in the parking lot in front of you milling around. More people. People yelling. They start bashing in random cars. Now hundreds of people are around, yelling into bullhorns, throwing rocks at windows, bashing cars, throwing fireworks.

You can't see any firearms.

When do you start shooting?

Why are they required to have firearms? If they have invaded private property which happens to contain my home knocking in windows and such, how much of a stretch is it from here to knocking in my head if I don't deal with them? What about the rioters in Milwaukee recorded specifically targeting white people for the sole offense of being white? Given that I meet that description, especially if I see it happening, why should I not consider myself threatened? You are right about the new generation of rioters being different. In the 60's, rioters set senseless fires generally burning their own homes. In the 90's they were out to cause a ruckus and focus more on stealing than anything else. Today, they are out for blood, and so far as I am concerned, if they get any blood, it is going to be their own.

 

[T.Lex]

Feel free to disagree. Not everyone believes in giving rioters room to destroy.

Sorry - you misinterpreted my disagreement.

I don't believe in that either, but assigning tasks to police officers (either in groups or individually) isn't something INGO members get to do.

No, my disagreement is that I am not convinced shooting this new brand of protester will have the same impact (pardon the pun) as it would have in the past. Even in Dallas, with police getting shot, it seemed like as many people running toward the shooting as away. Ok, maybe that's an exaggeration. But, the videos of rioters trying to instigate a response from police are plentiful. Giving them what they want - a shooting, blood, martyrs - is going to be a tough call.

And I keep going back to that lameass reporter who drew his pistol. Those guys were daring him to shoot them.

Anyway, clearly my views on the topic are the minority.

 

[MohawkSlim]

If the fire is already started in/on your building, what good will shooting do?

I'm assuming people who set my building on fire would probably not clear a safe path for me and my family to exit said building.

 

[IndyDave1776]

I'm assuming people who set my building on fire would probably not clear a safe path for me and my family to exit said building.

 

[rhino]

In 1989 I was driving in Berkeley, CA south of campus and turned into an ongoing riot. They'd already overturned some delivery trucks and were heading up Telegraph Ave breaking windows of storefronts. Fortunately I was already in my vehicle and I was on the periphery, so evacuation was both the prudent course of action as well as possible. If I were already inside a building with an angry mob swarming around or near it, I can easily conceive of situations where evacuation either wouldn't be possible or would result in a worse situation than being inside.

I don't expect to have to contend with such circumstances near my home, but you never know where you'll be when things get bad. I never expected to have to ever worry about riots in Indiana (at least outside of Indy), but the future is more uncertain than ever.

Arson scares me a lot more than fists, boots, knives, clubs, or guns.

 

[Expat]

I still remember Reginald Denny...

 

[printcraft]

I still remember Reginald Denny...

Shame, He can't remember much of anything.

 

[Expat]

Shame, He can't remember much of anything.

A small price to pay to give them room to riot...

 

[KellyinAvon]

I still remember Reginald Denny...

Me too

 

[pudly]

Shame, He can't remember much of anything.

Don't worry. I'm told there is a new generation of race rioters out there. I'm sure they have much more respect for human life. Or not...

 

[Excalibur]

It's a good idea to think about how to defend your castle but then you remember that it can be set on fire without much effort.

 

[MohawkSlim]

videos of rioters trying to instigate a response from police are plentiful. Giving them what they want - a shooting, blood, martyrs - is going to be a tough call.

"Worldstar!!!!"

I agree there's a difference in the rioters, their motivations, etc., but the human psyche is the same regardless of the underlying causes. We all react the same way to threats regardless of how daring we are in front of a cell phone camera. Rioters become emboldened by the actions of the mob and groupthink takes over. If they're allowed to smash windows, they will. If they're allowed to set cars on fire, they will.

But the moment fire hoses, police dogs or those new sound cannons show up, they're no longer allowed to do that stuff. Same goes for private citizens shooting into the crowd. As soon as there are consequences realized by individuals in the crowd they're now forced to dissociate themselves and consider the consequences of remaining with the group and/or continuing that action.

If a reporter waves a gun and all the badass kids dare him to shoot them it looks really cool on social media. Stacking bodies doesn't look as cool though, and more than likely worldstar would be showing a$$#oles and elbows as they ran away. Whether the protest is held in Wishamufuka Woods or Broad Ripple, the mentality is the same. Everybody wants to do hoodrat stuff until doing hoodrat stuff gets your wig split.

Arson scares me a lot more than fists, boots, knives, clubs, or guns.

Which is what makes this very difficult. Someone pointing a gun at you is obvious intent to do you seriously bodily harm or cause you death. Someone holding a Bic lighter 30 yards away and setting coke bottles of gas on fire... not so much. Except it is.

We'll Monday morning QB this stuff to death. Commentators noting how the protester was trying to catch the dumpster on fire and not necessarily intent on burning down the building. The other side saying he was obviously trying to kill little kids who slept in the apartments.

The only thing I can be 100% sure about in a riot is I have the absolute right to defend myself, my family, and my home from those intent on doing us harm. Our God-given rights, supported by the constitution, ensure we can reasonably defend all of the above. But, that whole jury thing will likely come into play at a later date.

 

[printcraft]

Don't worry. I'm told there is a new generation of race rioters out there. I'm sure they have much more respect for human life. Or not...

^^^^^^^^^^^
No pants on the ground sagging!
Those rioters had old school class.

 

[Alpo]

Which is what makes this very difficult. Someone pointing a gun at you is obvious intent to do you seriously bodily harm or cause you death. Someone holding a Bic lighter 30 yards away and setting coke bottles of gas on fire... not so much. Except it is.

That's my number one "unleash the hounds" signal. You light a bottle on fire, I will do my best to make sure that fire doesn't go anywhere.