How I damaged gun rights today

[buckstopshere]

What has this foolishness brought about?

Well it sure didn't help our cause.

For all the talk and attention on gun owners since Newtown, what has been lost? We've actually gained ground in the courts and the antis have lost. Aside from mag limits in NY and CO (recalls and a future over correction towards liberty in the near future is my prediction) several states have strengthened their gun laws, even here in Indiana. Illinois now has a carry license. Why give a damn what retailers are doing with their business. Shop there or don't but for all the bs being slung around,the courts are siding with us. Note that I won't be satisfied until constitutional carry is the law of the land.

The cause is for owners of firearms to be accepted by those on the line, granted it will not happen to the hard core left but it may to those in the middle. Exercising ones "rights" in an irresponsible way help non of us in our "cause".

Is that really that hard to comprehend??

You might remember how folks looks at the Harley riders in the 50's & 60's.

If its that hard for you to understand there's little anyone can do to help you.

And what did folks with Harley's do? Ride their bikes in their houses? Cover the Harley emblem? Sell em? Pushing the perception that a Harley makes you a badass and a symbol of freedom led to middle class fat dudes in their 50s (amongst many other riders) cruising around town riding them today. If those bikers had conformed to the wishes of those who didn't approve of their lifestyle, fat dudes in their 50s would be stuck at home watching the cooking channel.

bottom line is Harley's went mainstream and that never would've happened if those 50s and 60s scary bikers conformed. Perhaps that is the future of OCing a long gun.

 

[buckstopshere]

Do as you wish, you will anyway, with little thought for anyone else.

And another view.

How bout a mature viewpoint.

I for one am not interested in what's popular with the rest of the country. Getting yourself deeply in debt is popular. So is voting for one of two mafia families that are robbing you blind and then putting your faith in the next guy will save you. It's popular to outsource your security to the police, your food to Monsanto and your freedom to those who to restrict it.

All you're doing by piggy backing on quotes from other forums is showing how many others out there enjoy polishing their chains and licking the boots of their masters.

Do not ever forget that the .gov did not give you your rights and can not take them away. You only lose them by giving them away.

 

[jcwit]

I for one am not interested in what's popular with the rest of the country

If nothing else the idiots have succeeded in dividing the gun owning folks.

And you seem to think that's good?????????????????????????????????

You only lose them by giving them away.

I gave 8 years of my life to keep them, did you?

 

[ATM]

If nothing else the idiots have succeeded in dividing the gun owning folks.

And you seem to think that's good?????????????????????????????????

Gun owning folks have divided themselves. You and many others have simply adopted the same position as the antis on this matter.

I gave 8 years of my life to keep them, did you?

To keep what? The right to keep and bear arms? Who did you defend those rights from during those 8 years?

 

[buckstopshere]

If nothing else the idiots have succeeded in dividing the gun owning folks.

And you seem to think that's good?????????????????????????????????



I gave 8 years of my life to keep them, did you?

Lol. Oh please, you're using liberal tactics to try and make your point. Are you going to pull the race card next? I'm not taking your bait.

How about you focus on the entire theme. I'd rather you address the real points instead of putting words in my mouth and implying military service is a requirement for having rights.

Discuss what has been lost. Have we gained ground or lost ground in the legislation of gun ownership? I posted a much more interesting line of thinking regarding the expansion of gun legislation that you're choosing to ignore. How about that Harley analogy coming back to bite you. Let's further that discussion. Let's use your words instead of populist opinions from others.

And thank you for your service

 

[jcwit]

Whatever, if you wish to be irresponsible so be it, you and yours are the ones who will have to live with it, not me.

How did the Harley analogy come back to bite me? There was a time when the Harley folks were feared by the common folk and with good reason, they cleaned up their own and are now accepted. They didn't do it by making fools of themselves.

 

[jcwit]

Discuss what has been lost. Have we gained ground or lost ground in the legislation of gun ownership? I posted a much more interesting line of thinking regarding the expansion of gun legislation that you're choosing to ignore. How about that Harley analogy coming back to bite you. Let's further that discussion. Let's use your words instead of populist opinions from others.

And thank you for your service

Go back to post 87 and check it out for starters.

 

[ShootnCut]

Lol. Oh please, you're using liberal tactics to try and make your point. Are you going to pull the race card next? I'm not taking your bait.

How about you focus on the entire theme. I'd rather you address the real points instead of putting words in my mouth and implying military service is a requirement for having rights.

Discuss what has been lost. Have we gained ground or lost ground in the legislation of gun ownership? I posted a much more interesting line of thinking regarding the expansion of gun legislation that you're choosing to ignore. How about that Harley analogy coming back to bite you. Let's further that discussion. Let's use your words instead of populist opinions from others.

And thank you for your service

Liberal tactics????? You mean like refusing to listen to someone who offers a differing opinion? Like being absolutely sure you're right and twisting someone else's words around just so you can dispute them? Like ignoring the facts because they don't support your position? Perhaps you should listen to yourself.

And if you're going to talk about focus, how about you focusing on the fact that you're arguing with someone almost twice your age, who's seen twice as much, and is obviously more than twice as intelligent. And the military service of OTHERS is a requirement for YOU having rights.

Discuss what has been lost? That's what we keep trying to do, Contrary to what you may have been told, the world didn't start the day you were born. You keep talking about all we've gained but you're not smart enough to realize that we remember when we had it in the first place. And because of a handful of idiots we lost it and had to gain it back.

So if and when all this open carry comes crashing down don't say you weren't warned. And don't come on here blaming the rest of us because we weren't supportive. You'll have no one to blame but yourselves. If it works out for the best I'll be the first to say I was wrong and thank you for your effort. But unfortunately I just don't see it going in that direction. I hope I'm wrong. Time will tell.

 

[jcwit]

Discuss what has been lost. Have we gained ground or lost ground in the legislation of gun ownership? I posted a much more interesting line of thinking regarding the expansion of gun legislation that you're choosing to ignore. How about that Harley analogy coming back to bite you. Let's further that discussion. Let's use your words instead of populist opinions from others.

And thank you for your service

Go back to post 87 and check it out for starters.

At present we have gained on the legislation front. But in public opinion we are loosing, and in the end that is what we must win, and running around with long guns in fast food establishments and retail stores is not going to accomplish gaining in public opinion. To think otherwise is pure folly.

 

[ATM]

Liberal tactics????? <snipped>

Calm down, you used up your entire daily allowance of logical fallacies just in that one rant.

 

[ATM]

Go back to post 87 and check it out for starters.

At present we have gained on the legislation front. But in public opinion we are loosing, and in the end that is what we must win, and running around with long guns in fast food establishments and retail stores is not going to accomplish gaining in public opinion. To think otherwise is pure folly.

So, while legislative infringements are being repealed in many states, a few restaurants have recently made non-prohibitive public requests to please not brings guns into their stores due to the complaining ninnies (MDA, of course, as well as some like-minded fellow gun owners).

Oh the horror!

 

[ShootnCut]

Calm down, you used up your entire daily allowance of logical fallacies just in that one rant.

Maybe......But several have used up their daily allowance as well.

 

[buckstopshere]

Whatever, if you wish to be irresponsible so be it, you and yours are the ones who will have to live with it, not me.

How did the Harley analogy come back to bite me? There was a time when the Harley folks were feared by the common folk and with good reason, they cleaned up their own and are now accepted. They didn't do it by making fools of themselves.

They didn't clean up their act. At present,there are several biker gangs operating in the United States. Harley's became mainstream not because riders hid them from public view. Perhaps people also realized that it wasn't the bike that made them scary?

Go back to post 87 and check it out for starters.

Done. Doesn't address the legit wins where it matters.

Liberal tactics????? You mean like refusing to listen to someone who offers a differing opinion? Like being absolutely sure you're right and twisting someone else's words around just so you can dispute them? Like ignoring the facts because they don't support your position? Perhaps you should listen to yourself.

And if you're going to talk about focus, how about you focusing on the fact that you're arguing with someone almost twice your age, who's seen twice as much, and is obviously more than twice as intelligent. And the military service of OTHERS is a requirement for YOU having rights.

Discuss what has been lost? That's what we keep trying to do, Contrary to what you may have been told, the world didn't start the day you were born. You keep talking about all we've gained but you're not smart enough to realize that we remember when we had it in the first place. And because of a handful of idiots we lost it and had to gain it back.

So if and when all this open carry comes crashing down don't say you weren't warned. And don't come on here blaming the rest of us because we weren't supportive. You'll have no one to blame but yourselves. If it works out for the best I'll be the first to say I was wrong and thank you for your effort. But unfortunately I just don't see it going in that direction. I hope I'm wrong. Time will tell.

no, liberal tactics like redirecting the conversation away from reason and making it something emotional. You're pretty good at it I see but also include insults. Well played sir.

I've met several people that are twice my age that are half as intelligent as a box of nails. Age isn't a measurement of intelligence, it's a measurement of survivability.

You haven't lost anything unless you were OCing a long gun in certain retail or restaurant establishments. It's important to understand what is important and what isn't. Gun policies at private businesses would be a cultural issue. It's these cultural issues that keep folks distracted from the real issues.

this whole OC may come crashing down. In predictable fashion, many gun owners will blame OCers instead of anti-freedom politicians and their useful idiots who voted OC away.

See how that works? Just like my previous posts, I didn't twist any words, try to elicit an emotional response or name call. Even a talking monkey like me can do it. You should give it a try.

 

[buckstopshere]

Go back to post 87 and check it out for starters.

At present we have gained on the legislation front. But in public opinion we are loosing, and in the end that is what we must win, and running around with long guns in fast food establishments and retail stores is not going to accomplish gaining in public opinion. To think otherwise is pure folly.

i didn't see this post and responded to your other one.

I'm not sure we are losing in the court of public opinion. Gun ownership is on the rise, NRA membership is on the rise and more people are getting their state permission slips just as a few examples. A small vocal minority doesn't necessarily represent public opinion. I prefer actions over words. More people are arming up, sounds like winning to me.

 

[jcwit]

i didn't see this post and responded to your other one.

I'm not sure we are losing in the court of public opinion. Gun ownership is on the rise, NRA membership is on the rise and more people are getting their state permission slips just as a few examples. A small vocal minority doesn't necessarily represent public opinion. I prefer actions over words. More people are arming up, sounds like winning to me.

Ya, we are really winning, current NRA membership is in the neighborhood of 5millon, in a country of over 300 million. We,ve got a hell of a long ways to go.

BTW gun sales have fallen off sharply.

Be aware that that small vocal minority has easily gotten laws changed quite often, sometimes for the good and many times for not so good.

 

[ShootnCut]

They didn't clean up their act. At present,there are several biker gangs operating in the United States. Harley's became mainstream not because riders hid them from public view. Perhaps people also realized that it wasn't the bike that made them scary?



Done. Doesn't address the legit wins where it matters.



no, liberal tactics like redirecting the conversation away from reason and making it something emotional. You're pretty good at it I see but also include insults. Well played sir.

I've met several people that are twice my age that are half as intelligent as a box of nails. Age isn't a measurement of intelligence, it's a measurement of survivability.

You haven't lost anything unless you were OCing a long gun in certain retail or restaurant establishments. It's important to understand what is important and what isn't. Gun policies at private businesses would be a cultural issue. It's these cultural issues that keep folks distracted from the real issues.

this whole OC may come crashing down. In predictable fashion, many gun owners will blame OCers instead of anti-freedom politicians and their useful idiots who voted OC away.

See how that works? Just like my previous posts, I didn't twist any words, try to elicit an emotional response or name call. Even a talking monkey like me can do it. You should give it a try.

And age is a measure of experience. The ability to draw upon history and attempt to not make the same mistakes again. And whenever the older generations try to give advice to the younger generations based upon that experience and history it would be in their best interest to listen instead of talk. Maybe you should give that a try.

 

[SteveM4A1]

And age is a measure of experience. The ability to draw upon history and attempt to not make the same mistakes again. And whenever the older generations try to give advice to the younger generations based upon that experience and history it would be in their best interest to listen instead of talk. Maybe you should give that a try.

Experience is important, and one should listen. One should also choose to hold a different opinion if they do not believe that experience or intelligence is right.

 

[ShootnCut]

Experience is important, and one should listen. One should also choose to hold a different opinion if they do not believe that experience or intelligence is right.

Agreed, age and experience doesn't necessarily guarantee intelligence. A lot of our politicians are perfect examples of that.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Agreed, age and experience doesn't necessarily guarantee intelligence. A lot of our politicians are perfect examples of that.

Now if we could just agree that open carrying a rifle is not irresponsible or hurting "our" cause

 

[indiucky]

How did the Harley analogy come back to bite me? There was a time when the Harley folks were feared by the common folk and with good reason, they cleaned up their own and are now accepted. They didn't do it by making fools of themselves.

Actually Harley's became priced so high that in order to own one you had to have a pretty good job, disposable income, and a platinum card to buy all of the cool leather and chaps....They cleaned themselves up by pricing themselves to a market that could afford them...

Just a theory and IMHO ofcourse...