Home Defense CQB - AR vs. Pistol

[BehindBlueI's]

Will a window stop whatever firearm/round you use for home defense? Or do you rely on blunt/edged weapons for that task?

I recommend bricking up all your windows, just to be safe.

I've worked the occasional drive by shooting, and actually window glass can start the .223 tumbling. You see the bullet hole in the window, then where it struck an interior wall and can tell it was already tumbling at that point. Pistol bullets that hit residential glass keep on trucking. Auto glass, they tend to start shearing off jackets, etc. Ammo selection matters, of course.

Maybe 3 years ago or so I had an old man shot in the face by an AR through a window. (His son was the target, but you know...) The bullet hit the aluminum window frame first. The man had a tiny chunk of shrapnel in his cheek, and we weren't sure if it was from the window frame or the bullet. The drywall looked like it'd been sandblasted, but no real bullet strike.

 

[T.Lex]

Was dude's nickname "Lucky"?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I recommend bricking up all your windows, just to be safe.

I've worked the occasional drive by shooting, and actually window glass can start the .223 tumbling. You see the bullet hole in the window, then where it struck an interior wall and can tell it was already tumbling at that point. Pistol bullets that hit residential glass keep on trucking. Auto glass, they tend to start shearing off jackets, etc. Ammo selection matters, of course.

Maybe 3 years ago or so I had an old man shot in the face by an AR through a window. (His son was the target, but you know...) The bullet hit the aluminum window frame first. The man had a tiny chunk of shrapnel in his cheek, and we weren't sure if it was from the window frame or the bullet. The drywall looked like it'd been sandblasted, but no real bullet strike.

Since every window in my house needs replaced, it's tempting. But I think I'll pass. For one I'd have to brick my walls also, unfortunately I live in a stick built home. If I had my wife's Aunt's house it might be a different story. The walls are about as bullet proof as they get in homes. Double brick construction, inside layer is perpendicular to the outer layer, so 12" of brick plus the mortar layer in between. I don't want to imagine what that would cost to build now.

And thank you for sharing your experience.

 

[Excalibur]

I live in a condo, so I have to watch where I am shooting if somehow, my home gets broken into. Plus side, is that I live on the second floor and other than my neighbors, I got at least 180 degrees of my house where if I missed, I won't have to immediately worry about where the bullets will be going...except bullet drop if a round goes through a window and starts falling into the yard.

 

[blakeelee]

AR. its not hard maneuvering around doorways and hallways with an ar. On paper, it looks like maneuverable pistols would be better, but extending your arms to shoot a handgun is just as long as the end of a barrel on an AR

 

[Excalibur]

AR. its not hard maneuvering around doorways and hallways with an ar. On paper, it looks like maneuverable pistols would be better, but extending your arms to shoot a handgun is just as long as the end of a barrel on an AR

And you can still op to go SBR or AR pistol route if you're hallways and turns are really tight. I'm actually warming up to my Scorpion Evo 3 for this once I get a suppressor for it.

 

[dudley0]

Trying to decide if I want to drop my 300blk upper on a pistol lower to save a little length or just keep it on an SBR lower. I have a little time as I am still vetting it to be sure I get any kinks worked out at the range instead of during a must have moment.

Have some 110 gr supers coming in. Looks like those are the best thus far for this caliber. Supers are hearing safe and much nicer than shooting the 5.56 with a can.

 

[iChokePeople]

Trying to decide if I want to drop my 300blk upper on a pistol lower to save a little length or just keep it on an SBR lower. I have a little time as I am still vetting it to be sure I get any kinks worked out at the range instead of during a must have moment.

Have some 110 gr supers coming in. Looks like those are the best thus far for this caliber. Supers are hearing safe and much nicer than shooting the 5.56 with a can.

Other than for legal compliance, I struggle to come up with a single instance in which an AR pistol would be better than the same upper on a rifle lower as an SBR. I *suppose* you could say something about needing to shoot one-handed, but even then I think it's a pretty tough argument to make vs. having a real stock, real cheek weld, etc.

And all you pistol guys, remember that I'm only talking about *an AR pistol* and the scenario here where the upper is the same and only the lower changes. I'm not questioning your choice of a handgun (non-AR) over a rifle.

 

[WestSider]

James Yeager says long guns are always better.

 

[dudley0]

Other than for legal compliance, I struggle to come up with a single instance in which an AR pistol would be better than the same upper on a rifle lower as an SBR. I *suppose* you could say something about needing to shoot one-handed, but even then I think it's a pretty tough argument to make vs. having a real stock, real cheek weld, etc.

And all you pistol guys, remember that I'm only talking about *an AR pistol* and the scenario here where the upper is the same and only the lower changes. I'm not questioning your choice of a handgun (non-AR) over a rifle.

Inside my house I do not see a need for a great cheek weld coming into play. The SBR is just a couple inches longer than a pistol lower, but I was just thinking about it. I do not see a need at the moment to put any optics on it. Flip up sights are there now. I have a laser to move over once I get confident with the upper.

 

[iChokePeople]

Inside my house I do not see a need for a great cheek weld coming into play. The SBR is just a couple inches longer than a pistol lower, but I was just thinking about it. I do not see a need at the moment to put any optics on it. Flip up sights are there now. I have a laser to move over once I get confident with the upper.

Yeah... needing or not needing it wasn't really my point. My point was that if someone was thinking that an AR pistol would be superior to an AR SBR for shooting one-handed (again, same upper, all other things equal), I'd argue that the availability of the full stock with its available additional point of contact would probably still, IMHO, get the win. And I think it would be pretty easy to demonstrate at the range. Even at close distance.

But everyone's different, I'm sure there's someone out there who'd be best served by a musket.

If you do go out and test, post your results. It would be interesting.

 

[dudley0]

I don't think we are in disagreement here. I don't see the AR pistol being better, I am only considering OAL. I have a pretty short fixed stock on one of my SBRs. I think that a pistol tube will be shorter. Need to go grab mine from the pile and see. It was on one of my lowers while I waited for my first SBR paperwork a while back.

To go even shorter while still staying with 5.56 I had considered that Kel_tek thing... but not too much.

Instant Edit: Just grabbed the 300 blk on the shortest SBR lower and did a walk thru the house... first floor only. I will admit that single handed is a lot easier while tucking the buttstock between the arm and body. This wouldn't be as stable with just a tube. Maybe if I used a pistil brace, but then I am almost spending the same as my stamp for the SBR. Plus I can play at the range against my shoulder.

If I didn't have the can on the front it might be a little easier to hold one handed while trying to maneuver through the obstacles in the house. That would defeat the purpose of hearing safe in the house.

I can't this evening, but maybe tomorrow I will drop a couple rounds inside the house through an open window... safely of course... just to see what the concussive force is like.

 

[CavMedic]

We have been clearing houses in the middle east with rifles and carbines without issue for over a decade now. I had 0 issues using my M4 when I was over there and I have talked to plenty of Marines using muskets with all of them saying they had no issue at all. I currently have a 7.5" AR pistol as my HD gun. I like it better than a pistol as I have a strong 2 handed grip on it and with a Red Dot putting quick shots on target is easy peasy. The only thing that I want to change about it is getting a suppressor for it, but that involves convincing the boss that I NEED it.

 

[MinuteManMike]

I can bring my .45 to bear more swiftly than my AR (though that stays chambered and nearby too). I keep my electronic hearing cans next to the pistol and both near my bed. Why not? Two seconds to ENHANCE and protect my hearing? Hell yeah!

I would hope I could get to the AR and open the bag in time but I wouldn't count on it. But I sure would prefer 30 rounds over 10.

Either way, I will sit tight and light up any bastard that comes down the hall without warning or mercy.

 

[Doublehelix]

Either way, I will sit tight and light up any bastard that comes down the hall without warning or mercy.

^^^This!!!^^^

 

[Excalibur]

I can bring my .45 to bear more swiftly than my AR (though that stays chambered and nearby too). I keep my electronic hearing cans next to the pistol and both near my bed. Why not? Two seconds to ENHANCE and protect my hearing? Hell yeah!

I hope it's electronic protection so you can hear if whoever comes to your door is a bad guy or a friendly. I have a set of ears next to my bed. Takes a second to put them on and a second to turn them on.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

We have been clearing houses in the middle east with rifles and carbines without issue for over a decade now.

LE has been doing so for, well, a very long time, with no significant issue as well. Of course, when .mil or le clears a building, they are doing it as a team with rare exception. I get the arguments over the general handiness of a pistol, but for me and my purposes I'm going to long gun any time I can.

 

[adam]

but that involves convincing the boss that I NEED it.

Pop off a couple rounds in the house and ask if the boss enjoys the noise.

 

[rhino]

LE has been doing so for, well, a very long time, with no significant issue as well. Of course, when .mil or le clears a building, they are doing it as a team with rare exception. I get the arguments over the general handiness of a pistol, but for me and my purposes I'm going to long gun any time I can.

Agreed.

We need a puppet theater with an AR puppet and a pistol puppet singing "Anything you can do, I can do better."

 

[iChokePeople]

Agreed.

We need a puppet theater with an AR puppet and a pistol puppet singing "Anything you can do, I can do better."

Try to AIWB one, Mr. smart R-H/B engineer guy.