Home Defense CQB - AR vs. Pistol

[Woobie]

I don't want to come off as a jerk, but every time this subject comes up, someone mentions the noise issue. I completely sympathize. I have 3 kids and a wife who I don't want to deafen. Rifles are certainly louder than pistols, which increases this risk.

But...

While I sympathize, the logic doesn't compute. Why are you using a firearm for home defense? If I may, I will presume to answer my own question for you: to stop the attacker. If things are so bad that I am forced to point a firearm at someone and discharge a round, then it is because I can not remove the threat to my family any other way, and I want that threat to end right now. Here is the rub: handguns have a very spotty track record when it comes to immediate incapacitation. In fact they suck. They produce what amounts to a stab wound. Many handgun stops are psychological, i.e. "Hey, I just got shot and it hurts. I don't want to play anymore." Rifles, on the other hand, cause significantly more damage, and are much more reliable at producing incapacitation. There is a reason we use them for hunting instead of pistols.

Why take half measures with your family's well-being? If you want quiet, get yourself a sword. OK, not really. But hearing safety is a real concern where lives are not on the line.

 

[Bigtanker]

Thanks everyone.



Hmmmm... this surprises me. I thought a good mushroomed pistol round wouldn't go too far after going through a body (of course there are many different things in the body that it can hit on the way through of course). I have not really seen this same type of expansion with .223/5.56 rounds, but that could just mean I have never really researched it. I do know that a good .223/5.56 self defense round will fragment like crazy, is this what keeps them from over-penetrating as opposed to the mushroomed HP pistol rounds?

There was a thread on self-defense ammo for AR-15's recently in either the General Firearms Discussion forum or Long Guns Forum, but I could not find it after searching.

So what do you recommend for home defense rounds for an AR-15 (.223/5.56)? The gun I have designated for home defense has a 1:9 twist, but I also have 1:7 twist guns available. I think I would like to keep the 1:9 for home defense however. I normally shoot 55 gr. through this gun without issues, although I have shot some of the heavier rounds that the 1:7 barrels prefer, and they seemed to shoot fine as well.

[video=youtube_share;1z_GQfsNB3M]http://youtu.be/1z_GQfsNB3M[/video]

 

[rhino]

I know people scoff at the idea of putting on hearing protection in this kind of situation, but I plan on it, and I run a can on what I'd consider my "primary" HD gun. Plan so that you'll get some warning of an intrusion, whether that's alarms, cameras, dogs, legos, whatever and IF IT'S POSSIBLE, get that ear pro on -- it has the additional benefit of making me hear EVERYTHING better. In my OLD house that was a little older and creakier, it was crazy how much I could hear with my electronic hearing protection on.

Back on topic, the rhino put together the most informative, complete post in this thread. Excellent stuff.

You are wise!

As an aside, Howard Leight electronic muffs are still less than $40 on Amazon Prime.

I love when I hear the argument that an AR isn't good for HD because it's length and then they recommend a shotgun.

That is a good point. Plus, you can short-stock an AR and still be effective, and ARs come in all lengths.

I don't want to come off as a jerk, but every time this subject comes up, someone mentions the noise issue. I completely sympathize. I have 3 kids and a wife who I don't want to deafen. Rifles are certainly louder than pistols, which increases this risk.

But...

While I sympathize, the logic doesn't compute. Why are you using a firearm for home defense? If I may, I will presume to answer my own question for you: to stop the attacker. If things are so bad that I am forced to point a firearm at someone and discharge a round, then it is because I can not remove the threat to my family any other way, and I want that threat to end right now. Here is the rub: handguns have a very spotty track record when it comes to immediate incapacitation. In fact they suck. They produce what amounts to a stab wound. Many handgun stops are psychological, i.e. "Hey, I just got shot and it hurts. I don't want to play anymore." Rifles, on the other hand, cause significantly more damage, and are much more reliable at producing incapacitation. There is a reason we use them for hunting instead of pistols.

Why take half measures with your family's well-being? If you want quiet, get yourself a sword. OK, not really. But hearing safety is a real concern where lives are not on the line.

You make a good point, but there is also the possibility of disorienting yourself with the pressure wave in some cases. For instance, let say your safe room is small like a bathroom. If you set off a few 5.56 rounds in there and the muzzle is not close to or outside of the open door, you could have some issues that go beyond affecting your hearing. Another good reason for a silencer (aka suppressor).

 

[edporch]

I prefer a pistol over an AR because in a WORST case scenario, where the perp has made it into my bedroom and I'm still in bed, I can more quickly bring a pistol into action.
An AR would be slower to bring into action while still in bed.

That said, just do what you're comfortable with.

 

[iChokePeople]

Why take half measures with your family's well-being? If you want quiet, get yourself a sword. OK, not really. But hearing safety is a real concern where lives are not on the line.

Too long for house-clearing operations -- you can't get a full swing in a hallway or a tight bathroom. Plus I've heard that they penetrate walls more than, say, a nice little ESEE 4.

 

[223 Gunner]

Let me start off by saying that I skimmed most of this thread, what I did read were all good arguments for and against a carbine.
I personally use a pistol myself, and I know this is different, but I do have a PS90 with a 50rnd. mag at the ready. I have electronic muffs nearby as well.

My choice of a PS90 was three fold, the first being its size, it is a bullpup with a 16in barrel. The other two reasons are mag capacity and light recoil for follow up shots by me or my wife. It is loaded with the blue tip FN ammo that is more frangible.

I personally am not disabled or old and feeble, but a few years ago I read an article by a man bound to a wheel chair and the PS90 was his weapon of choice for all those reasons.

And I think some of the Milsurp guys prefer their M1 Carbines, the power of a .357 mag from a rifle barrel, that is fed from a 30rnd. mag.
Just giving you guys/gals some other weapons to think about for home defense.

 

[T.Lex]

[video=youtube_share;1z_GQfsNB3M]http://youtu.be/1z_GQfsNB3M[/video]

That's awesome. BTW, I think it is BBI that LOVES the .32.

 

[Woobie]

Too long for house-clearing operations -- you can't get a full swing in a hallway or a tight bathroom. Plus I've heard that they penetrate walls more than, say, a nice little ESEE 4.

yeah, no one wants the over penetration issues you get with a hand and a half or a rapier.

 

[Woobie]

You are wise!

As an aside, Howard Leight electronic muffs are still less than $40 on Amazon Prime.





That is a good point. Plus, you can short-stock an AR and still be effective, and ARs come in all lengths.




You make a good point, but there is also the possibility of disorienting yourself with the pressure wave in some cases. For instance, let say your safe room is small like a bathroom. If you set off a few 5.56 rounds in there and the muzzle is not close to or outside of the open door, you could have some issues that go beyond affecting your hearing. Another good reason for a silencer (aka suppressor).

Well you'll get no argument from me on suppressors. Electronic muffs are a great idea, but you don't have to think about putting a silencer on everyone, and it controls the pressure as well as the sound.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

That's awesome. BTW, I think it is BBI that LOVES the .32.

...At least it's not a .25.

 

[dsol]

I am really praying that the Hearing Protection Act gets through Congress and Trump signs it right away. I will be buying threaded barrels and suppressors for about six handguns and rifles. One of which will stay by the bed full time. Right now I rely on a set of electronic muffs too but everyone else in the house will be deafened. Suppressors will be the way to go if they come off the NFA. I have my eye on a tiny 9mm one at my local shop, should be ran wet for best results but would still be better than a bare muzzle. Not sure how quickly wire pulling compound evaporates, maybe keeping a piece of tape over the end might help.

 

[rhino]

I am really praying that the Hearing Protection Act gets through Congress and Trump signs it right away. I will be buying threaded barrels and suppressors for about six handguns and rifles. One of which will stay by the bed full time. Right now I rely on a set of electronic muffs too but everyone else in the house will be deafened. Suppressors will be the way to go if they come off the NFA. I have my eye on a tiny 9mm one at my local shop, should be ran wet for best results but would still be better than a bare muzzle. Not sure how quickly wire pulling compound evaporates, maybe keeping a piece of tape over the end might help.

Indeed! Silencers (aka suppressors) for everything if that happens!

 

[Excalibur]

As of this moment, I plan to build an SBR .300 blackout AR with a suppressor on it. Right now, it's going to start as a pistol, and doing the paper work for both. That's my dream HD gun. Short barrel with a very effective rifle round that's almost small and handle for inside my home. I don't plan to clear my house if something goes bump in the night, but if I have kids or love ones in my home, I need to do that.

 

[SMiller]

My M4 is for outside work, a G19 or G17 w/X300 and night sights is for inside work.

 

[dudley0]

As of this moment, I plan to build an SBR .300 blackout AR with a suppressor on it. Right now, it's going to start as a pistol, and doing the paper work for both. That's my dream HD gun. Short barrel with a very effective rifle round that's almost small and handle for inside my home. I don't plan to clear my house if something goes bump in the night, but if I have kids or love ones in my home, I need to do that.

This is what I have just done. Have a 5.56 AR with a can right now, but the 300 blk with the can is just shy of 16" barrel wise.

Now I need to start looking for good HD rounds. I don't think the 220 gr sub sonic ammo I have will be the best fit.

 

[Excalibur]

I want the .300 blackout because it seems like the round was designed for short barrels and to be suppressed.

 

[Tanfodude]

Not so sure about the .300 blk round's over penetration. 223/5.56 has a better chance of not over penetrating. Better damage with a tumbling round in stopping a threat.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I know a lot of people advocate for a shotgun for home defense,

Whatever. Dance with the one you brung.

What matters is what you can do and what you need to do.

Do you need to go get kids? "Mommy, Daddy, help me."

Do you need to shelter in place?

Do you need to blow doors and run walls?

The tool is of little importance. It is your training that matters as 3 is to 1. Buy the tool for what you anticipate doing and then train, train and train more with it. Going to the range shooting is not training.

The AR platform is harder to maneuver in tight quarters vs. a pistol,

Not really, kinda. Maybe for all that Charlie Sheen SEEL crap, but not as much as you think and the disadvantage disappears with training.

Here, see if this helps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_APnhoIYeD0

I keep one of my AR's handy with a couple of loaded magazines close by, but last night as I was laying in bed, I started thinking about what situation short of a zombie or Russian/Chinese invasion that I would actually prefer the AR over a pistol.

To rationalize the cost of the AR. That's only reality-based reality where the AR is preferable.

I'd love to hear from others that use their AR rifles as a self defense weapon in their homes...

I don't. Maybe if I lived out in the woods or had a castle in the desert or whatever, yeah, maybe. Heck, maybe I use a G3.

I have neighbors, in tight and close. All this "the AR does not over penetrate" happy talk have not seen a child shot through the head with a 5.56 that zips through a window. My house, not being a castle in the desert, has windows.

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I don't. Maybe if I lived out in the woods or had a castle in the desert or whatever, yeah, maybe. Heck, maybe I use a G3.

I have neighbors, in tight and close. All this "the AR does not over penetrate" happy talk have not seen a child shot through the head with a 5.56 that zips through a window. My house, not being a castle in the desert, has windows.

Will a window stop whatever firearm/round you use for home defense? Or do you rely on blunt/edged weapons for that task?

 

[T.Lex]

This thread reminds me of a song.

"To the window, to the wall...."